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Lower cross hanger under plate, designs?
#1
Hey,
I was wondering if it would be correct to follow an original piece for my scabbard, as the lower cross hanger is just sitting there alone :/ I could use my initiative but I don't want to go on a wrong design! Punching holes would be fine? Or an embossing job is it?

Here's a picture of what I want to copy in a different style.

Regards, and thanks,

Sam


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Samuel J.
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#2
Sam.

That picture you show is not unlike the lower hanger of the sword of Tiberius, however it is not in my opinion one that you can use for your scabbard.
I think it's from the point of view of the major theme of your own scabbard, so to be honest I would simply leave it on its own just as it is.

However should you think that you need to do more decoration with it, just wrap a piece of metal around the leather that has the same kind of scallop as the bottom edge of your top plate and have the bottom hanger on top of that.
Where I say scallop you could also put in an etched line above and below each scallop above and below the hanger but just have these scallops at the same width as the hanger. That puts in your upper plate theme and does not clash with the overall design.
Brian Stobbs
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#3
Oh, thank you Brian! I didn't see your reply :oops:

I am thinking now I'll just leave it as is. Really nice scallop idea though! Like you said, it's not necessary. Too much isn't a good thing. I want the two cross hangers to be about two inches within each other and leaving it bare allows me to make them closer so the lower one needs nothing complimenting it.
I tried to use what was said before in my other thread, methods suggested by both you and Crispvs, and I understand the methods of nailing nails through the scabbard to be peened over at the back, or having "concealed" rivets joining hanger to locket plate, and secured with small nails not going through the scabbard. But I will be using small nails to secure the chape, as no better way is at mind.
I need help coming to a conclusion on the hangers...I think it's plausible to use small nails for the locket plate, and a long rivet to go through the hangers, through to the back of the scabbard, and peened over. Like the nail method but I doubt I will be able to get solid brass nails, so I'll use a thin maybe 16th" drill bit, drill through, get a brass rod, pre rivet a head, put through the scabbard and bang over the back of the hanger as tight as can be resting on the hard back surface of the hanger.

Anyway, I really appreciate you getting back, thanks,

Sam
Samuel J.
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#4
Sam
You can purchase brass escrutcheon pins from your hardware shop. They are very thin.
They are normally used in carpet edging and usually come in plastic packets.
Good luck u are doing a brilliant job

regards
richard Robinson
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#5
huh, thank you VERY much Smile
Sam
Samuel J.
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#6
I think there might be a case for caution about the idea of escutcheon pins, for most of these I have found tend to be brass plated hard steel.
I would say the idea of brass wire made into rivets might be a better way of doing things.
Brian Stobbs
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#7
Sam.
I have just come back from viewing your scabbard brasswork and this might just be a bit late in the day to make a new suggestion.
If the upper decoration plate had been made with longer side pieces, then both hangers could have been fixed to it with only very small rivets going through the decoration edges and also the rear of the hangers.
This would have given a clean and clear effect at the front of the scabbard, this is where scabbards are made as skeleton frames and the leather covered wood is simply slid into place. Then when the upper striker plate is put on the top all is secure.
Brian Stobbs
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#8
I have to admit to being a little dubious about making that type of locket plate with longer 'legs'. I know that Martin White of the ESG reconstructed the Valkenburg and Long Windsor plates that way, and that Len Morgan now makes them that way following my posting up of my short article on these lockets on the RMRS website.
http://www.romanarmy.net/scabbard.htm

However, all of the examples of this type which I know of, with the possible exception of the Porto Novo scabbard (I do not presently have a sufficiently detailed picture of it to be sure) seem to to be very consistent in the length of the legs, strongly suggesting that the legs were normally short and did not extend down to the lower cross hanger. They are normally pieced at the bottoms of the legs to allow for the attachment of one cross hanger but this would have to be the upper cross hanger as the only holes to be found higher up are the holes to attach the bracing piece which runs along the back at the top.

The Porto Novo scabbard had side guttering which the lower cross hanger appears to be riveted to. However, neither the Sofia or Long Windsor examples, both of which were still associated with their swords, appear to have been associated with side guttering, so it may be correct to think that this type of locket was often used on scabbards where the lower cross hanger was not in contact with any other metallic parts.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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