Replica of a roman warbow?

[daryush]

This guy?

Seems to me more of a stylised "Scythian" type than the "Hunnish" type ...

Also, is that a back quiver, or something else slung across his shoulder?

Not all glue is waterproof - I think it has more to do with the covering. I have a Mongolian composite bow that has the sinew covered simply by paper and it loses 15 - 20 # in humid weather. Another one is covered in birch bark and retains its poundage a little better but there is still some variation. Also remember that horn gets very brittle at low temperatures.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Oh I realise that. Just that perhaps the ancients were savey enough to know what types were and were not! 8-)
Yes quite possilby, however, it is good enough for the moment.
A scythian in on my list, but not a priority at the moment.

[Robert Vermaat]

In Pavel Kalinikov's case, I'd say that the Hun/Hungarian type bows don't appear commonly until perhaps the 3rd or 4th Centuries AD. Soldiers hired from across the Iranian and Sarmatian borders would probably carry them much earlier though. A Scythian bow would probably be just fine for a 1st Century BC Roman.

Could you describe what would be the essential chracteristics/differences of/between the Scythian bow, the Sarmatian bow and the Hunnic bow?

[daryush]

In Pavel Kalinikov's case, I'd say that the Hun/Hungarian type bows don't appear commonly until perhaps the 3rd or 4th Centuries AD. Soldiers hired from across the Iranian and Sarmatian borders would probably carry them much earlier though. A Scythian bow would probably be just fine for a 1st Century BC Roman.

Could you describe what would be the essential chracteristics/differences of/between the Scythian bow, the Sarmatian bow and the Hunnic bow?

I might have covered this earlier but I don't think I've put it in a nice neat single post, so here you go:

Scythian bows
Scythian bows are typically "cupid" shape, there is a sharp reflex at the handle, followed by a sharp deflex. The tips are short, and recurved, in a circular shape. Most of the bending occurs near around the reflex/deflex.

These are typically carried in gorytoi with the bowstring up. Draw lengths for Western Scythian bows (during the Greek period) are fairly short.



Here is a picture showing a reconstruction of the Xinjiang bow by Adam Karpowicz.

Hunnish bows
(Really a misnomer as the Huns don't appear until several centuries after this bow!)
Characterised by long, fairly straight, non-contact siyahs (meaning the only place the bow touches the string is at the nocks). The bows are generally quite large and asymmetrical. Siyahs are usually cropped fairly close to the nocks. The siyahs are made by extending the bow core and laminating them stiff.



Drawings of the Miran bows, by Jack Farrell.

In Central Asia, they were carried in Orlat-style gorytoi until possibly the 2nd or 3rd C AD. Afterwards, they were carried unstrung in a soft, narrow, bow case for the unstrung bow. I'm afraid I don't know the details of how they were carried in Rome, but I know of one depiction of a Roman-Parthian horse archer that appears to show the unstrung bow case.

There's no "Sarmatian bow" type, I expect that the Sarmatians picked up the Hunnish bow sometime between the 1st C BC and 2nd C AD like the Parthians and Kushans did.

Hope this helps.

[Virilis]

Great pics!

In fact the shorter lower siyah of the hun bows are said to make them easier to handle on horseback. This might be a myth, because the asymmetry of a hun bow makes possible the positioning of the arrow in the middle of the bow and in this way increases the accuracy of the bow. Then again, might be that both reasons are at work in this context...

[John Conyard]

In terms of the weather the nature of the string must be taken into account. "Wet Western strings" require different material than "dry Eastern strings".

[Marcus Aemilius Longinus]

The one thing about the Scythian type bow,while it does compare well with some of the bows on TC and some other sculpture, they don't really compare well to the bone and antler Siyahs and lathes found in the archaeological record. I'm only really basing this on the drawings in my bishop and coulston of bow lathes found in carnuntum and wadding hill in the section on the principate and then several found at bar hill which seem to date to Antonine times. These all seem to appear to be more in line with the Hunnic type bow siyahs rather than the curvy Scythian tips. I'm afraid I'm unable to post up pics although some others here might be able to.

[daryush]

The one thing about the Scythian type bow,while it does compare well with some of the bows on TC and some other sculpture, they don't really compare well to the bone and antler Siyahs and lathes found in the archaeological record. I'm only really basing this on the drawings in my bishop and coulston of bow lathes found in carnuntum and wadding hill in the section on the principate and then several found at bar hill which seem to date to Antonine times. These all seem to appear to be more in line with the Hunnic type bow siyahs rather than the curvy Scythian tips. I'm afraid I'm unable to post up pics although some others here might be able to.

You'd be correct - laths can't exist on the Scythian bow. It is likely both styles were in use for a long period before the Hunnic bow became more prominent (this was the case in Asia several centuries before)

Thanks for posting. I wasn't aware of those tips. I only know of the bow tips from Central Asia and even then I know of more early Turkic (also called "East Turkestan") and late Hunnic types, long after the timeframe we are interested in.

Antonine = 2nd Century AD, yes? Well, it seems to make sense that Hunnic bows existed then, given that they were well established in Iran and becoming established on the Western Steppe (to my knowledge).

It somebody can get pics of the laths, it would be really interesting to have a look at them!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The one thing about the Scythian type bow,while it does compare well with some of the bows on TC and some other sculpture, they don't really compare well to the bone and antler Siyahs and lathes found in the archaeological record. I'm only really basing this on the drawings in my bishop and coulston of bow lathes found in carnuntum and wadding hill in the section on the principate and then several found at bar hill which seem to date to Antonine times. These all seem to appear to be more in line with the Hunnic type bow siyahs rather than the curvy Scythian tips. I'm afraid I'm unable to post up pics although some others here might be able to.

I was searching for them the other night too, couldn't find any images online, and ran out of time!
Thought maybe it was my memory playing tricks on me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_bow

This link from Wkipedia makes it as clear as mud really! And still no image, yet the link mentions the British finds.

[Robert Vermaat]

Thanks for the explanation Daryush.

[Crispvs]

"So I suppose I'll just make my own one (a basic cylinder with a baldric)."

That is what I ended up doing. Observing that the Housesteads archer seemed to have a back quiver on a baldric (actually the stone itself is far more weathered and open to interpretation than the illustration above would suggest) but there being no real clue as to the form of the quiver, and with the Rhineland stelae of Monimus, Hyperanor and Julius Abdes Pantera not being any more helpful on that front, I decided to make myself a simple tubular quiver with a baldric. I used a reasonably heavy weight leather to give it rigidity and added a further band around the mouth to maintain the shape. Rather than sewing it I was a little lazy and simply laced it together with leather thonging. I made the baldric just long enough to go across my body, meaning that when wearing armour I tend to hang it off one shoulder instead but if shooting in a reasonably fixed stance can wear it off the hip fairly easily. Please note that I am not suggesting that this is in any way authentic. I have also placed a small disc of wood in the base of the quiver to prevent arrowheads eventually driving their way through the leather base (which I had soaked and stretched over a cup to give it a vertical wall to lace through), as I was advised that they might.

For what is worth, my bow is a Grozer Hungarian Extra 1C with a pitiful 38lb draw weight which even a lightweight stripling like me can pull fairly easily. :roll:



Sorry about the modern arrow fletchings. One day soon I really must trim them to a more authentic shape.

Crispvs