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Did the Greeks ever adopt foreign equipment ..
#61
Quote:is this another thread in the spirit of '' I hate that Greek culture is more famous than mine, and have to give school exams about it''? Cause if it is, we dont play this game here. Nobody ever made claims that Greeks did it all and did it perfect.

Yes. I was wondering about that side of things.

Without wishing to get political there is a disturbing trend I have noticed on various parts of the world wide web to try and rubbish Greek culture especially when it comes to the ancient Greek world. Check out YouTube for example because that is full of political reimaginings of history and revisionism which often flies in the face of all the best current scholarly thinking. At least Wikipedia tries to be fair about it all.

Again, without wishing to mention any names here (and after all I am a citizen of neither country) it seems some elements of a fairly recent addition to the European family of nations, has taken it upon itself to embark upon a course of historic reinterpretation (a mild euphemism) which has seen renaming of airports and the setting up of statues and momuments of ancient Greek personalities - but not within Greek territory! This is a highly peculiar thing to do.

I hope we do not have any of these anti-Hellenes here :|
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

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[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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#62
Quote:is this another thread in the spirit of '' I hate that Greek culture is more famous than mine, and have to give school exams about it''?
Cause if it is, we dont play this game here. Nobody ever made claims that Greeks did it all and did it perfect.
And if anybody does, they're told off. So gentlemen, this is NOT the place to start such a discussion [mod out].
Robert Vermaat
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FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
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#63
Quote:Again, without wishing to mention any names here (and after all I am a citizen of neither country) it seems some elements of a fairly recent addition to the European family of nations, has taken it upon itself to embark upon a course of historic reinterpretation (a mild euphemism) which has seen renaming of airports and the setting up of statues and momuments of ancient Greek personalities - but not within Greek territory! This is a highly peculiar thing to do.

I hope we do not have any of these anti-Hellenes here :|

How intelligent, seeing every single Eastern European as a hive of nationalists trying to steal Greek stuff. It's not a sweeping generalization or anything...
Real name - Peteris Racinskis
TWC name - any variation of "Roach". Blatta Optima Maxima as of now.
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#64
Quote:
Idomeneas post=303573 Wrote:is this another thread in the spirit of '' I hate that Greek culture is more famous than mine, and have to give school exams about it''?
Cause if it is, we dont play this game here. Nobody ever made claims that Greeks did it all and did it perfect.
And if anybody does, they're told off. So gentlemen, this is NOT the place to start such a discussion [mod out].

Im happy you see it that way. There is nothing more annoying than nationalists on a history phorum :-D
aka Yannis
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Molon lave
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#65
Last warning to all. Either continue the discussion in topic, or I will lock the thread.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#66
Sorry, I just lost control of myself.
Real name - Peteris Racinskis
TWC name - any variation of "Roach". Blatta Optima Maxima as of now.
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#67
Quote:
Ghostmojo post=303590 Wrote:Again, without wishing to mention any names here (and after all I am a citizen of neither country) it seems some elements of a fairly recent addition to the European family of nations, has taken it upon itself to embark upon a course of historic reinterpretation (a mild euphemism) which has seen renaming of airports and the setting up of statues and momuments of ancient Greek personalities - but not within Greek territory! This is a highly peculiar thing to do.

I hope we do not have any of these anti-Hellenes here :|

How intelligent, seeing every single Eastern European as a hive of nationalists trying to steal Greek stuff. It's not a sweeping generalization or anything...

Please forgive me Roach. I was not suggesting or implying yourself in any way connected with that comment. It was aimed at things I have seen on the internet in other places. The nation state I refer to is obviously not the one you hail from either, so please accept my assurance that you were not in my mind when I speculated that proposition.

Returning to the subject. Greeks clearly did adopt foreign equipment and other gear. They came into contact with far too many other races to not be influenced. Alexander's Greeks obviously became influenced by their journey through Persia and beyond. Some resisted it clearly, but some embraced it at his whim. Eastern type phalangites wore trousers didn't they - in Persian style? Also the opposite happened with Persians being recruited into the army and equipped in Makedonian fashion. I guess it worked both ways.

I have always seen it as a given that the horsehair crest idea originated somewhere else, and much earlier, and the Greeks adopted that for their own helmets. The idea being I suppose to mimic the image of a horse itself with a proud flowing mane.
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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#68
Well done gentlemen.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#69
When the great Keltic invasions occurred there must have been some effect upon Greek tactics and equipment?
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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#70
I've never understood why we ought to take the crest coming from the Carians at face value.

I am NOT saying that the Greeks did not borrow from other cultures: it's pretty obvious that happened to a large extent (as to all people, at all times). It's just that it seems like such an easy to arrive at universal item that it doesn't really need a specific progenitor anymore than, say, underwear or the bow.
Jass
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#71
We do not! I gave that example as an ancient Greek admitting himself that not everything was invented by the Greeks, that the ancients freely admitted that they imported foreign equipment. Whether the crest really was or not imported from the Carians is of no importance to the argument.
Macedon
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#72
Quote:When the great Keltic invasions occurred there must have been some effect upon Greek tactics and equipment?

The adoption of the Thureos is thought by many to be a direct consequence of this, though I must admit I am curious about a route directly from Italy Via Cleonymus, Pyrrhus or the other adventurers.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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#73
Quote:
Quote:When the great Keltic invasions occurred there must have been some effect upon Greek tactics and equipment?

The adoption of the Thureos is thought by many to be a direct consequence of this, though I must admit I am curious about a route directly from Italy Via Cleonymus, Pyrrhus or the other adventurers.

That is exactly what I was getting at. Mind you perhaps by then, regular direct interference in overseas territories was more common - which helps link the Italiote, Epeirote and Lakedaimonian aspirators; but the Keltic (or Celtic) intrusion is an interesting one. Of course The Spartans had used Keltic mercenaries before (supplied I think by Syracuse?) and these peoples may well have thought about returning to Hellas one day - but not as paid fighters - but as potential conquerors.
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

[Image: A-TTLGAvatar-1-1.jpg]

[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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#74
If the aspis is attributed to the carians I do recall them being responsible for the horsehair crest. I do recall horsehair crests being a regular feature in Homer and also frequently depicted on Assyrian reliefs and possibly (interpretively) part of the Seapeoples helmets and so a hullava lot earlier than even the Archaic period in Hellas.

regards
Richard
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