Roman Salute?

[Luc. Ambr. Ianuarianus]

After talking with a friend this weekend, I was wondering if anyone out there has an idea of how Roman soldiers saluted each other? How do re-enactors do this today?

[M. Caecilius]

Can scenes of Adlocutio (on coins, on Trajan's column, etc) be used? It's actually the emperor saluting his troops with the arm extended or slightly bend at the elbow, although that might be a typical rhetorical gesture rather than a military salute. The soldiers in the scenes I came across appear to be standing still.

This is what you would now call the "Roman salute", and which was used from 18th century paintings to European fascist regimes, though there does not seem to be much proof either way in it actually being Roman.

There's also indications that raising the hand to chest level was used - take the famous school-children relief from Trier where the late-coming (?) student and the teacher (the hand is broken off, though, and you can just see the arm bent at the elbow) seem to do this.

That's not a military context, but would Romans have used a specifically military way of saluting? We're used to the idea, but the concept may be modern - and essentially in the same category as the question on whether the Romans marched in step and the (probably mistaken) idea that Roman armies wore uniforms - going back to the early modern times (raising your hand to your forelock or hat as a mark of respect; opening the visor to show your identity if you prefer romanticism to probability). I'm also wondering whether they had a practice to "present arms" or something of the kind you do see in re-enactment shows.

I do believe there are treatises on Roman gestures, though, but can't seem to remember any references at the top of my head.

[Nathan Ross]

Short answer - we don't know!

A lot of the time when Roman authors mention saluting they could be referring to a verbal thing, of the 'Hail Caesar' variety, so there might not have been an actual hand gesture at all. Gestures shown in Roman art and sculpture could refer to any number of things. It seems likely that the raised palm indicated the taking of an oath - so not a salute as we would understand it - or a gesture of benediction from an emperor, for example. Some people have theorised that the hand raised to the brow, shown on some images, might actually be a salute. Josephus mentions soldiers 'raising their right arms' on parade, but the hand gesture may or may not have been significant.

Reenactors, I think, tend to go for variations of the above, if at all.

Some previous threads have discussed the subject, if you fancy combing through them:

Roman Army Salute??

Origins of the 'Hollywood' Roman Salute?

Roman Salute

[Nathan Ross]

There's also indications that raising the hand to chest level was used - take the famous school-children relief from Trier where the late-coming (?) student and the teacher (the hand is broken off, though, and you can just see the arm bent at the elbow) seem to do this.

Interesting - I don't think this one has been brought up with regard to this subject before. Although it looks to me like the hand gestures are saying 'student: apologetic' and 'teacher: stern admonition' (it looks rather more like a raised finger might have been in the broken bit!)

going back to the early modern times (raising your hand to your forelock or hat as a mark of respect; opening the visor to show your identity if you prefer romanticism to probability)

Yeah, the opening visors thing is pure invention. The modern military salute dates back to the early nineteenth century, and the symbolic gesture of removing the hat - military headgear at that date became to big and cumbersome to remove easily!

[M. Caecilius]

Interesting - I don't think this one has been brought up with regard to this subject before. Although it looks to me like the hand gestures are saying 'student: apologetic' and 'teacher: stern admonition' (it looks rather more like a raised finger might have been in the broken bit!)

Very likely. The student's posture of holding the hand to the body in an almost warding motion, palm turned outwards, does suggest the modern way of saying "sorry" and "please don't hurt me". It's interesting that a scene of a student arriving to late at a lesson would have been chosen for the relief, though.

Yeah, the opening visors thing is pure invention.

Unfortunately. It sounds so nice as an explanation. Were it not for the tiny inconvenient that it's not based in fact.

Somewhat on topic: do we have any indications of Roman soldiers
a) standing to attention (rather than simply trying not to offend by being too slouchy)
b) presenting arms (rather than holding them where they wouldn't drop or get in the way)?

[Nathan Ross]

Somewhat on topic: do we have any indications of Roman soldiers
a) standing to attention (rather than simply trying not to offend by being too slouchy)
b) presenting arms (rather than holding them where they wouldn't drop or get in the way)?

I think not, in either case. The only pictorial evidence that might show some sort of salute either has the soldiers milling about in a random group (Trajan's Column), or standing individually in a rather casual attitude (Ahenobarbus and Mikkalus reliefs). I tend to think that standing to attention and presenting of arms are a product of the 17th/18th century or so, when the need for accurate formation, simultaneous musket volleys etc emphasised mechanical precision.

But perhaps we should wait for some reenactors to state their preference?

[Luc. Ambr. Ianuarianus]

Thanks to both of you for your thoughts.

This question came up in conversation with a friend who has, like myself, a father who was in the service. Being amateur military historians, we both thought it was strange that we don't, historically speaking, have an answer to this question. Not knowing how Roman soldiers formally greeted each other seemed strange to the both of us since, we assumed, this would have been something a Roman soldier did throughout his day as he interacted with various people in the chain of command.

Salvete!

[John M McDermott]

This thread has been discussed before. Dr. Sarah Phang has discussed in both her books Roman military protocol, which she describes as "not well developed". There is evidence for Roman soldiers saluting in the modern fashion, that is, raising their hands and touching their helmets. There is no evidence for the "Star Trek" salute.

[john roberts]

If history worked in reverse, Roman "21st century reenactors" would be arguing whether we held sacrifices before we took any important actions.

[comicus]

If history worked in reverse, Roman "21st century reenactors" would be arguing whether we held sacrifices before we took any important actions.

We don't?