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What Greek military hero do you admire most?
#16
This will be controversial, but I admire Agesilaus II most, followed by Leonidas I.
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Quinton Carr
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#17
Good call on Agesilaus II...

Xenophon

...and someone who I always wanted to know about, Adiemantos of Corinth (Battle of Salamis)
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#18
What was his part in the battle again? It's been a few years since I read about it!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#19
Agesilaos II ...

Now there is a subject in itself. If ever the rise and fall of a city could be laid at one man's feet - it is arguably the lame Spartan King.

Best to wade (as I have) through Agesilaos and the Crisis of Sparta by Paul Cartledge. It is a fascinating, if somewhat heavy (and occasionally plodding) read.

His unremitting hatred of Thebes was a serious foible and led to disaster ...
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

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[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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#20
So which Greek leader gave Rome the most trouble?
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#21
Quote:How about Mithradates?

Mommsen holds him in pit-deep esteem, characterizing him as an eccentric and egomanical despot, really a kind of ancient Gaddafi, who commands through his minion generals oriental rag-tags who hold only one advantage over the splendid Roman legionary: mass.

But he does give him the credit of being the first oriental to fight back against the onslaught of the Greeks and Romans, an early forerunner of the Parthians and Sassanids do to say. Monumentally incompetent, but persistent and annoying to the Romans he thinks Mithradates was.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#22
Quote:Pericles, for his (mostly) astute management of the Peloponesean war, until he succumbed to the plague!

As far as I remember, the Athenians burnt up the larger part of their immense treasury in the few years during which Pericles coordinated their war effort, so costly was his conduct of war. His way of war would have bankrupted Athens many times before they would have won.

I agree with Christopher that Iphicrates' achievement is largely overlooked. He was largely responsible for the introduction of lighter troops into Greek warfare which further softened up Sparta's military hegemony and made Greek warfare at large more flexible and mobile, both developments which contributed to Alexander's successes in the vast eastern theatre.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#23
Quote:So which Greek leader gave Rome the most trouble?

Clearly Pyrrhus who was a great tactician, albeit a bit naive as a strategist.

He could have won against Rome if the Sicilian polis had thrown their full weight and military potential against the Romans and would not have conspired behind his back against him instead.

It was this proverbial egoism of the Greek polis and its chronic political short-sightedness which made its downfall in the end unavoidable. The Romans simply had the better polity.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#24
Cleopatra! Just kidding Confusedmile:
Although I think she caused the most trouble for Rome after Pyrrhus.

For a hero I'm thinking Antipater. A loyal, capable, and popular general who held Macedonia together. He seems to have been the most repected man in his time. It's hard to see who else could have secured the homeland as well as he did while sending Alexander reenforcements.

I have to agree with Mommsen. Mithradates was a wild-eyed old man who only brought about the destruction of his kingdom. Besides, wasn't he half Iranian? Why should he be considered Greek in the first place? :razz:

~Theo
Jaime
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#25
Quote:Cleopatra! Just kidding Confusedmile:
Although I think she caused the most trouble for Rome after Pyrrhus.

For a hero I'm thinking Antipater. A loyal, capable, and popular general who held Macedonia together. He seems to have been the most repected man in his time. It's hard to see who else could have secured the homeland as well as he did while sending Alexander reenforcements.

I have to agree with Mommsen. Mithradates was a wild-eyed old man who only brought about the destruction of his kingdom. Besides, wasn't he half Iranian? Why should he be considered Greek in the first place? :razz:

~Theo

For some reason I thought he lead a semi successful revolt in Greece during the time of Marius when Julius Ceasar was a young man. My bad
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#26
For some reason I thought he lead a semi successful revolt in Greece during the time of Marius when Julius Ceasar was a young man. My bad

Unless the book's I read are wrong, he did...

Being half Iranian, would mean he was possibly half Greek??
Much like myself... Smile
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#27
Quote:For some reason I thought he lead a semi successful revolt in Greece during the time of Marius when Julius Ceasar was a young man. My bad
Well, Mithradates was behind the Asiatic Vespers incident. And he invaded European Greece with large armies. So, I don't think you're mistaken either, Joe.

Marius was semi-retired at the time of the massacre in Asia. He was reemerging into public life but he fled Italy after Sulla marched on Rome. So, Marius never encountered Mitradates or dealt with the war except maybe when he briefly seized the consulship for the last time.

Quote:Being half Iranian, would mean he was possibly half Greek??
Much like myself...
I just think it's ironic that a half Persian who openly boosts of his ancestry would be seen as a champion of Hellenic culture. I haven't explored his ancestry too closely but I'm guessing he's a product of Alexander's social engineering policy when he ordered his men to take Persian wives.

~Theo
Jaime
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#28
That's right. It was Sulla who put down the revolt.
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#29
Quote:So which Greek leader gave Rome the most trouble?

Achilles and Odysseus, if you believe the Roman claim of being descended from the Trojans. :grin: Seriously, though:

Quote:Clearly Pyrrhus who was a great tactician, albeit a bit naive as a strategist.

I agree.

Another Greek who caused the Romans some problems was Philip V. Not during the Macedonian War, but during the Hannibalic War. His juncture with and support of Hannibal could have struck the death blow to Rome. Fortunately for them, the Romans could turn the Aetolian League loose on Philip V, but there was enough heartfelt hatred left to start a war within two years after the very costly Second Punic War.

Other than those, Cleopatra and Mithridates, it seems the Greeks were rather tame when compared to the revolts you get on the Iberic peninsula, in Gaul, in Mauretania, in Judaea, to the foreign enemies in Parthia-Persia, and to the ultimately greatest threat the Romans posed to each other.

The struggles between individual cities or groups within cities (stasis) seems to have caused a lot of headaches to the governor (and Emperor) though.
M. Caecilius M.f. Maxentius - Max C.

Qui vincit non est victor nisi victus fatetur
- Q. Ennius, Annales, Frag. XXXI, 493

Secretary of the Ricciacus Frënn (http://www.ricciacus.lu/)
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#30
Quote:Other than those, Cleopatra and Mithridates, it seems the Greeks were rather tame ...

I think no individual country put up more resistance than the Macedonians: Three wars against Rome and one final revolt. I have always had the impresssion that their resilience and resistance was so fierce and irreconcilable, their pride and unity so intact, and their view of the Romans as 'national' enemies so undiluted that one can almost speak of a Macedonian proto-nationalism.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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