What Greek military hero do you admire most?

[Ghostmojo]

With all due thanks to the creator of the original Roman version of this:

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?fu...=40#298187

I now ask: What Greek military hero do you admire most?

Myself - I have considerable admiration for Brasidas (the Spartan general of Peloponnesian War fame) even though we know so little about his short life.

Not far behind him would be Leonidas I (the king of Thermopylai fame) and Kleomenes III (surely the last great Spartan king?).

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Pericles, Leonidas, Xenophon, and as you say, Brasidas had a good military mind!
There are others!
Alcibiades was an able general, who was undercut by politics.

[M. Caecilius]

I'm less familiar with the Greek world than with the Roman one, and would agree that the epitome of the hero is Leonidas, but to add to your list (leaving aside the mythical Homeric heroes):

- Xenophon of Athens. The Anabasis is possibly one of the most fascinating accounts left behind by an actual soldier from antiquity, in my personal appreciation of course.

- Epaminondas of Thebes. Your examples are all Spartan, so I assume you won't like the nomination of the person who cost the Lacedaimonians so dearly, but he was a great general and innovator.

- Alcibiades of Athens, though I hesitate to name him, as he could be considered more of an anti-hero than a hero, and his reputation is not entirely military. Pity for Athens he was not sent to Syracuse, though.

- Xanthippus of Sparta. Even though he fought most famously for Carthage, not for any Greek city, he was a Greek. He was also quite successful and resourceful, and his alleged death by treason also makes the stuff of a hero.

Overall, though I'd only put Xenophon in the league of Brasidas and both behind Leonidas.

Edit: for some suggestions, C. Iulius came in first whilst I as typing!

[joeandmich]

How about Mithradates? He gave Consols Marius and Sula some headaches. Not to mention the greatest tactician of all time Alexander the Great.

[hoplite14gr]

Alexander the Great comes first but

I also admire Demophilos the Thespian because he stood in Thermopylae of his own free will not forced by law like the Spartans

Who cannot help admire Timoleon who saves the Italiotic Greeks from the jaws of extinction?

kind regards

[Ghostmojo]

I'm less familiar with the Greek world than with the Roman one, and would agree that the epitome of the hero is Leonidas, but to add to your list (leaving aside the mythical Homeric heroes):

- Xenophon of Athens. The Anabasis is possibly one of the most fascinating accounts left behind by an actual soldier from antiquity, in my personal appreciation of course.

- Epaminondas of Thebes. Your examples are all Spartan, so I assume you won't like the nomination of the person who cost the Lacedaimonians so dearly, but he was a great general and innovator.

- Alcibiades of Athens, though I hesitate to name him, as he could be considered more of an anti-hero than a hero, and his reputation is not entirely military. Pity for Athens he was not sent to Syracuse, though.

- Xanthippus of Sparta. Even though he fought most famously for Carthage, not for any Greek city, he was a Greek. He was also quite successful and resourceful, and his alleged death by treason also makes the stuff of a hero.

Overall, though I'd only put Xenophon in the league of Brasidas and both behind Leonidas.

Not at all.

I do have a preference for the Spartans, but that is just that I find them so fascinating. It doesn't blind me to the merits of other Greeks - I just didn't want to make my list too long. I was really after the quintessential Greek military hero, and even I had to mention three!

By extension I would include all of your choices (except perhaps Alkibiades because of his wandering allegiances); as well as Alexander III and Philip II of Makedon; Pyrrhos of Epeiros; King Agis III of Sparta; possibly Pelopidas of Thebes...

[M. Caecilius]

I do have a preference for the Spartans, but that is just that I find them so fascinating. It doesn't blind me to the merits of other Greeks - I just didn't want to make my list too long.

I didn't really think you were "lacedaimonising". I did forget the smiley with my comment on Epaminondas. :wink: It's clear, though, that Sparta, the epitome of a timocratic and military culture, should provide the Greek military hero par excellence (focusing on Classical times, and leaving aside the legendary Homeric heroes and the great generals of the Hellenistic area; in the latter case, one could perhaps add Demetrios Poliorcetes, despite the debacle at Rhodes).

[Dithrambus]

Um..Dithyrambus I suppose. :wink:

And the Messenian hero Aristomenes.

[john roberts]

The Spartan Mother. Did anyone else in history come up with so many pithy militaristic quips?
"With your shield or on it."
"Just take one step closer."
"We are the only women who give birth to men."
The list goes on and on.

[PMBardunias]

The argive crone who ended the life of the greatest military adventurer since Alexander with a roof tile.

[Paralus]

...leaving aside the legendary Homeric heroes and the great generals of the Hellenistic area; in the latter case, one could perhaps add Demetrios Poliorcetes, despite the debacle at Rhodes).

... and Gaza, Ipsus....

[sitalkes]

I think Brasidas and the others are pretty good but I would also like to add:

Iphicrates - beat the Spartans (at least twice), never lost a battle, has more stratagems attributed to him by Polyaenus than any other, invented many things (including (perhaps) a troop type and a shoe, may have influenced Philip and Alexander.

[Jona Lendering]

Seleucus. He managed to become popular with his Babylonian subjects; they genuinely must have liked him, because he managed to return. There's also a human greatness in his treatment of Ptolemy, who had snatched away Coele Syria.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Pericles, for his (mostly) astute management of the Peloponesean war, until he succumbed to the plague! Too bad greek medicine and town planning was not up to par!

[Paralus]

Seleucus. He managed to become popular with his Babylonian subjects; they genuinely must have liked him, because he managed to return. There's also a human greatness in his treatment of Ptolemy, who had snatched away Coele Syria.

Ahh yes, he would deal later "with friends who encroached".

He clearly was popular with the Babylonians as his re-taking of the satrapy with a handful of soldiers indicates. As well he managed to do what Eumenes could not: fight Antigonus - with all the latter's resources - to standstill and resultant rapproachment. He can only have done this with those satrapal forces at his disposal and few Macedonians.

It is one of the great pities of source preservation that book 21 of Diodorus is reduced to fragments. I, for one, would dearly love a narrative account of Seleucus' doings 311-302 - especially 311-308.