New Type of Armour?

[Vindex]

I've been given permission to put up my photos of the armour but there is also the link here which shows the relationship between the Mithraic piece and the scales before it was lifted ar Caerleon:

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/caf/uploads/CL...Detail.jpg

and my pictures from the blocks in the lab are attached.

Notice the nail head to give you a scale (although the link above also has a 5cm scale on it too).

Now, in my fanciful brain, if you rotate the picture in the link above through 90 degrees to the right, I think it becomes clearer what it is!! :wink: :wink:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

OK, I am probably on the wrong track here, but a Squamata hook set?

[mcbishop]

Not wishing to throw any cats in amongst any pigeons, the fitting with the 'Mithras' head (it is just a head in a Phrygian cap, comparable to a piece from Castleford, so no need to see it as overtly mithraic) reminded me of something and, when I visited Vindolanda again the other day, my suspicions seemed to be confirmed. Chamfron fitting, anyone?



The picture of the Caerleon 'armour' discs is not very detailed but they look as if they might have the same concentric rings on the underside as apron studs.

All in all, very intriguing ;-)

Mike Bishop

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well the you go! lol
Perhaps a chamfron!! And the rider wearing a segmentata!!! :-P

But seriously, that makes more sense than a head piece for a priest!

[Vindex]

Full marks Mr Bishop! :wink:

(Well, I would think it was a chamfron wouldn't I, but the position of the other copper alloy discs on the photograph in the link certainly persuades me!!)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Now thats a project I will try! :grin:

[mcbishop]

Now thats a project I will try! :grin:

What, a chamfron? But it's a sort of gimp mask for horses! hock: To each his own... :wink:

Mike Bishop

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, your friends are right into them, so i guess your right..... :wink:

[ValentinianVictrix]

If it is a chamfron in amoungst the other armour, then may I suggest that perhaps the scale armour is also associated with the horse, could it be clibanarii horse armour?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That's an interesting thought!

Sorry mike didn't mean to offend you with the reply!
However! :mrgreen: The horses I have seen wearing them
Didn't seem too uncomfortable with them, apart from one wearing a scale
One that he couldn't get used to. I imagine the rider has worked on it since then though!

[Vindex]

I know there hasn't been any update on this for a while as, unfortunately, the lovely lady at Cardiff Museum in charge of recording and conserving the "new armour" has been very unwell

That said, however, I have come across another small "head in a cap" piece associated with horse equipment (added to that from Castleford).

It is mentioned in Curle's 1911 book on Newstead, on plate LXXVII amongst the miscellaneous phalerae and if the forum would let me I'd put the picture up!!

[Renatus]

That said, however, I have come across another small "head in a cap" piece associated with horse equipment (added to that from Castleford).

It is mentioned in Curle's 1911 book on Newstead, on plate LXXVII amongst the miscellaneous phalerae and if the forum would let me I'd put the picture up!!

It is available online here:
http://www.curlesnewstead.org.uk/platelxxvii.htm

[Vindex]

Thank you!

<slaps forehead> Didn't think of doing it that way!

The Castleford example is also attached for comparison.

(As a further example of my limited technical ability, you'll have to rotate it :mrgreen: )

[Robert Vermaat]

(As a further example of my limited technical ability, you'll have to rotate it :mrgreen: )

Or stand on your head. :wink:

[mcbishop]

In London for the scanning of the Crosby Garrett Helmet yesterday, I was reminded in conversation with Ralph Jackson that the Ribchester Hoard Minerva phalera may have come from the circular setting on a leather chamfron and that it had a close parallel in a fitting from Elginhaugh.

This set me to thinking about the phalerae from Castleford and Newstead mentioned above. Since both depict heads with Phrygian caps similar in style to the chamfron studs, these discs may also be chamfron ornaments.

Finally, in other chamfron-related news, I note that the Portable Antiquities Scheme records a possible chamfron stud from the middle of the Greensforge complex of early military sites south-west of Wolverhampton.

Mike Bishop