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Tactics: Employment of the Pilum
#16
A few years back we did some tests with a Off the shelf Pilum and 2 home made handforged ones.
The shank of the home made ones was 10mm by 10mm square and 10mm round in diameter.
The shank was not hardened only the tip.

All penetrated, being thrown from a distance of around 5meters, a standard Deepeeka shield.
The shanks did not bend and they were easy to pull out of the shield to be used again.
From the same distance we threw them into a thick block of wood again only bending a bit by the weight of the shaft and pulling them out was a bit more difficult.

The throwing range, from a static position, that we achieved was around 12meters.
With a small lead we achieved ranges up to 20meters.
When the Pila hit the ground with the point and got stuck into the ground they bended a bit trough the weight of the shaft.

Well training is tomorrow so we will see how a Pilum works as a close combat weapon in a 2 by 2 meter square.
Regards

Garrelt
-----------------------------------------------------
Living History Group Teuxandrii
Taberna Germanica
Numerus I Exploratores Teuxandrii (Pedites et Equites)
Ludus Gladiatorii Gunsula
Jomsborg Elag Hrafntrae
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#17
This text (350 a.C.) is interesting because it suggests the ineffectiveness of the pilum in level field.

Livy VII, 23, 8
“Their steady courage was aided by the fact that they were on higher ground, for the pila and hastae were not thrown ineffectively as often happens on level ground, but being carried forward by their weight they reached their mark”.

praeter virtutem locus quoque superior adiuvit, ut pila omnia hastaeque non tamquam ex aequo missa vana, quod plerumque fit, caderent, sed omnia librata ponderibus figerentur

David Sierra.
David Sierra.
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#18
But the same can be said of most throwm missiles...height gives a great advantage!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#19
Quote:But the same can be said of most throwm missiles...height gives a great advantage!

The importance of text is that the effectiveness of the pilum in height is a exception to the rule. Most of the battles were on level ground and according to Livy, in these circumstances, the pilafell without effect in the enemy.



David Sierra
David Sierra.
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#20
'often' is the key there I think!
Sounds likethey were often thrown from a distance that did not get covered by the throws,
and perhaps failed to hit the targets.
I think it is a weapon that requires a short and flat trajectory to do damage on flat ground, and the height just makes the effect more devastating and uniform, perhaps.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#21
Quote:I think it is a weapon that requires a short and flat trajectory to do damage on flat ground, and the height just makes the effect more devastating and uniform, perhaps.
I agree there. I also think that the target plays a part here. I you want to throw the missile inside the enemy formation, a pilum would not be better or worse than a javelin, but since you had only a few pila for each man, the result could be called 'ineffective' I suppose. However, I should think that as a charge-breaker or in a throw to soften up the enemy front, the heavy pilum would be much more effective, and given enough distance I think that it would outperform any 'normal' javelin.
The fact that Livy mentions both hastae as well as pila sounds to me that he did not have that second target in mind. Roman formations usually had a lot of missiles (javelins, arrows, slingstones) which kept up a constant rate of fire throughout the engagement. Pila however were designed as specialist weapons, highly effective for those few occasions mentioned above - when used as 'common' missiles they would hardly be more effective than other missiles.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#22
Yesterday we had to cancel the Pilum as a close combat weapon test.
During a throw test it broke.

[attachment=1625]broken-pilum.jpg[/attachment]

It has already been repaired by our Museum blacksmith

[attachment=1626]100_3583.JPG[/attachment]

So instead of the Pilum we switched to a spear with almost the same length.
This being a last moment decision it was a last minute job.
[attachment=1627]100_3579.JPG[/attachment]
This picture shows clearly what a square forged nail can to to a shaft.

We tried the 2 by 2 meter fighting square combined with a big shield.
We noticed that the spear held the opponent at bay, until the opponent went fast forward when at that point I had to drop the somewhat, in weight, heavy spear and draw the short sword.
Personally I would prefer in a situation like this, a smaller shield (maximum length/diameter 75cm) a lighter/shorter stabbing spear/javelin and a big knife or a short bladed sword.

A theory:
I/we think that the 2 by 2 meter fighting square is the maximum that an average skirmisher can cover with ease.
With skirmisher meaning here a light/none armoured/light equipped fighter, in open order, that holds a piece of ground in the total battle plan and not the first group engaging the OPFOR (Opposing Force).


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Regards

Garrelt
-----------------------------------------------------
Living History Group Teuxandrii
Taberna Germanica
Numerus I Exploratores Teuxandrii (Pedites et Equites)
Ludus Gladiatorii Gunsula
Jomsborg Elag Hrafntrae
Reply
#23
Found out why the "Off the shelf" Pilum broke.
The shank broke a the place where it was welded to the plate.
Regards

Garrelt
-----------------------------------------------------
Living History Group Teuxandrii
Taberna Germanica
Numerus I Exploratores Teuxandrii (Pedites et Equites)
Ludus Gladiatorii Gunsula
Jomsborg Elag Hrafntrae
Reply
#24
Yes, funny thing about welding...the weld is usually the strongest piece in the equation,
the metal eitherside breaks.... :mrgreen:

Forged pieces will suit you better as an experimental piece! 8-)


@Robert, yes I agree entirely with what you are saying there.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#25
Normally the weld is stronger.
You know the saying: Never look a given horse in the mouth. :wink:
Regards

Garrelt
-----------------------------------------------------
Living History Group Teuxandrii
Taberna Germanica
Numerus I Exploratores Teuxandrii (Pedites et Equites)
Ludus Gladiatorii Gunsula
Jomsborg Elag Hrafntrae
Reply
#26
garrelt, how did the training go in the 2x2 cm square with the Gladius?
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