Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Auxilia - Tungrian on Hadrian\'s Wall
#1
I'm sketching out ideas for an early 2nd century impression, a Tungrian on Hadrian's Wall, but I'm not too sure of the most suitable clothing...

This photo is a sketch with a few 'stand-ins' (the shield, the belt and spear). I have asuitable 2nd-century Bar Hill style pugio. I have a plainly decorated Pompeii gladius on order, and the belt ....

[Image: SSL22610.jpg]

The belt is my biggest outlay. After a recent trip to Italy my funds won't go far, realistically I'd love to buy Newstead or Arbeia belt plates from Armentaria but the belt complete would cost me £160 without leather or shipping or rivets. Instead I may have to go for a cheaper option, which is Armentaria/Deepeeka's complete bullseye-plate 1stC belt assembly (fully complete, £100). If my impression is dated to 120-130, before Hadrian's death, Bishop & Coulston's RME doesn't preclude my use of the 1stC belt I believe.

On clothing. Enclosed boots seem appropriate. Tungrian's would be wearing trousers, so I've chosen a natural brown. The tunic I'm not sure about. This is a multi-weave pattern, mainly browns, in a dark check type.

I wonder if tablet weave-type decoration is appropriate? Any thoughts?

I chose blue leg-wraps, because I think it was in Roman Military Dress I read that the only leg wraps unearthed were blue ...

The auxiliary impression seems to be a bit of an open minefield, inviting you to walk in, but potentially dealing you a killer blow if you get too complacent! So before I jump in buying metalwork, I thought I'd better ask a few questions!
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#2
This is a close-up of the tunic material:

[Image: SSL22614.jpg]
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#3
Hi Paul,

Here's my early to mid 2nd Century Tungrian. Vindolanda pattern fell boots (Period III) The helmet is Hadrianic onwards. For a late first - early second C there are many mor options for you. Equipment from mid first C could well be serviceable and in use still.

I do like your tunic fabric. I'd be interested to find the source for the tablet-woven edging.
[Image: DSCF1546.jpg]
Reply
#4
Thanks for the advice Peroni. I've been scouring the Batavian's site recently, and read quite a few discussions here on RAT to which you have contributed. It looks like our helmets are the same (the Thielenhofen?), and I do like that dagger scabbard - very nice!

In your opinion, then, a late 1stC belt would not be out of place in Hadrian's army?

The woollen fabric and the border are from a local haberdashers shop. If you'd like me to check if they have any of the border in please PM me, and I'll mail some to you.
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#5
Hi Paul

In spite of all the evidence we have, when it comes down to specific impressions we are still pretty much grasping in the dark. As you know I put everything I could find into 'Roman Military Dress'.

It sounds good, looks good too and we know that sort of thing happened in other historical periods but as far as I no there is no evidence for what we would term regular auxilia of that period in checked clothing. There are some literary mentions of senior officers like Caesar and Mark Antony wearing Gallic garb and poor old Postumus was forced to wear Gallic clothing when he was paraded through Rome after the defeat of the Gallic empire. Personally I bet in life he would have looked every bit Roman but and you can almost hear a modern movie producer saying it, a Gallic emperor must wear Gallic clothes! If you are going for an irregular look that would be something quite different! However once again good hard evidence is practically non existent.

Undoubtedly go with the Vindolanda boots and there are a few types to choose from. There is also the Vindolanda textiles, some of which were red but the majority un-dyed. So you could go with natural red wool, or reddish browns or something like your trousers. A yellow brown cloak would look good too! You could have a paenula but a sagum would again seem more likely.

Once again there is no evidence to support the statement that 'Tungrians would wear trousers'. There is no reason why not of course but our limited evidence, mainly Trajan's column, would suggest Bracae are worn at this date. I would not go with tablet weaving either although perhaps once again there is no reason why not just no evidence to support it at that date.

The Thorsberg tunic style might be more suitable for a later impression but even the experts can not agree whether it is Romano Gallic, or Germanic!

As for the leg wrappings, the archaeological survival from Denmark was studied recently and they appeared to have been dyed blue. The much later Syracuse soldier has blue leg wrappings as does a character on the St Maria Maggiore mosaic in Rome. Both of those guys have red tunics too, so practically a 'uniform'. The early medieval drawing for the Thoracomachus also has a soldier in red orange tunic and black leg wrappings. So it would appear a dark colour for the leg wrappings was regarded as ideal.

However as you probably know there is very little evidence for the leg wrappings or bindings in the Trajanic period. You can see my own impression of a Tungrian Auxiliary and pull that to bits, on my website homepage gsillustrator.co.uk

Hope this helps a bit.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Reply
#6
I hadn't known about the Vindolanda textile finds. Since its Vindolanda I'm interested in with this look, it makes sense to start there. The tunic is also a 'place holder' and I thought the very subtle patterning might just be right for this period. A Vindolanda colour sounds better.

Trousers I know are still contentious, although I am interested in trouser wearing impressions! I've read arguments here on RAT before, for and against.

I could not remember reading about a post-Trajanic date for leg wraps. I had assumed that since Augustus was well known for wearing them in cold weather, they were in circulation with civillians and military alike. I'll crack open the books again Smile

Thanks for your thoughts, expert as they are on textile-type matters Graham. Now I'm off to look at your impression... Wink
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#7
Hi Paul

There are plenty of hunters shown wearing leg wrappings or leg bindings. Some of them could well be military but many of the examples I quote in my book are after this period too. The first example shown of military figures wearing them are on the arch of Constantine were a troop of soldiers have them. After that the examples I quoted above.

It would seem common sense to wear them and it has been discussed many times on RAT. From a practical point for both riders and foot you would think it more likely that they would be worn with the tunic instead of trousers and indeed sometimes they are.

It is just that if you are trying to marry the archaeological evidence with the literary and pictorial sources it is very difficult but there is as you say some literary evidence for them both prior and after the Trajanic period. It is just a pity we do not appear to have clear pictorial evidence for them too for this period.

There was some bandage like wool material from Vindolanda. They could be leg wrappings or simply bandages or toilet paper! The textile finds are mentioned in the book as are the sources for leg wrappings and bindings. If you come across anything else please let me know.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Reply
#8
There's the mention in Tacitus (Histories, II.20) of Caecina wearing a 'celtic' cloak of what might be plaid or check (versicolori sagulo) and trousers (bracas) in AD69 - he presumably picked up this wardrobe while leading the Rhine army, so it wouldn't be outlandish for an auxiliary in Britain sixty years later to be wearing something similar.
Nathan Ross
Reply
#9
Hi

Caecina's dress is seen by Tacitus as an insult to the good toga wearing citizens of Italy. This is also how Cicero views Mark Antony's Gallic dress and boots when he returns to Rome direct from Gaul.

Tacitus also refers elsewhere to the allies being given Roman equipment and weapons but the Roman populace do appear to have been shocked by the wild appearance of their frontier troops whenever they arrived in Rome. This presumably means Legionaries as well as Auxiliaries. It is probably a case of the Romans adopting frontier dress and the native troops adopting Roman dress. This evolves into the long sleeved tunic, sagum cloak and trousers that is so common in third century military dress.

In this instance I am reminded of a painting of an officer of the 8th Kings regiment who served in North America in the mid eighteenth century. He is entirely decked out to look like an Indian chief but that does not mean the entire 8th regiment dressed completely like Indians too, although they may have adopted the leggings and tomahawks which ironically were probably made in Britain for the North American market!

At least one Vindolanda tablet refers to the collection of clothing from Gaul and if the order was for anything like that given to weavers in Egypt then it would have been for garments in plain white wool. Presumably these could then have been dyed somewhere else if required.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Reply
#10
Quote:the Roman populace do appear to have been shocked by the wild appearance of their frontier troops whenever they arrived in Rome.

As an aside, this seems a common trope throughout history - one English lady was reportedly shocked at the appearance of the troops sent from India for the Abyssinia campaign in 1867; with their dirty 'kharkee' clothing they no longer resembled British soldiers, whom she had assumed always fought in red!

Quote:At least one Vindolanda tablet refers to the collection of clothing from Gaul and if the order was for anything like that given to weavers in Egypt then it would have been for garments in plain white wool. Presumably these could then have been dyed somewhere else if required.

But would the weavers of Gaul be making the same stuff as those of Egypt? It depends on whether 'native' customs affected supply, I suppose. Shipping it as undyed cloth would make sense though.

In the case of Caecina's 'multicoloured' cloak I would assume that it was a multicoloured weave, something like the later plaid, rather than a garment actually dyed in different colours. Could be wrong though - anyone for a 'Gallic' tie-dyed tunic? Smile
Nathan Ross
Reply
#11
Hi Nathan

Nathan wrote:But would the weavers of Gaul be making the same stuff as those of Egypt? It depends on whether 'native' customs affected supply, I suppose. Shipping it as undyed cloth would make sense though.

They would if that was what the Roman quartermaster ordered. If the orders from Egypt are anything to go by too, the Romans were also paying the suppliers less than the standard rate as well. It could have been seen as regular work however.

Nathan wrote: In the case of Caecina's 'multicoloured' cloak I would assume that it was a multicoloured weave, something like the later plaid, rather than a garment actually dyed in different colours.

That would be my understanding too, probably different shades of un-dyed wool. The term versicolori sagulo also applies I think to the later gold decorated cloaks worn by guards.

Nathan wrote: As an aside, this seems a common trope throughout history - one English lady was reportedly shocked at the appearance of the troops sent from India for the Abyssinia campaign in 1867; with their dirty 'kharkee' clothing they no longer resembled British soldiers, whom she had assumed always fought in red!

So do modern movie makers, for example in the last version of 'The Four Feathers'. The troops in the Gordon relief expedition who fought at Abu Klea, depicted in the film, were part of the camel corps who were specially equipped in a grey tunic with khaki trousers and blue puttees. In the film they were of course dressed in red tunics. Ironically Gordon too had specified that the relief force be dressed in red so the enemy would know they were British troops!

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Reply
#12
"I wonder if tablet weave-type decoration is appropriate? Any thoughts?"

Hi Mithras sorry to disapoint but what you have there is not tablet weaving but rather an embroidered tape...

according to the 73-75 vindolanda textile finds it was possible to prove 20% had been dyed, it doesnt mean only 20% were dyed of course... in only 9 cases was the colour identified with any certainty, the only piece of checked cloth contained purple dye, a "tapestry" band(I dont know whats meant here) was dyed with madder.
diamond twills seem to be fairly common making up 62% of the finds from 87-88, this suggests to me that a high proportion of diamond twill was worn, it doesnt suprise me though as despite its slightly more complex loom set up its no more difficult to make then any other twill and a beautifull cloth to boot.some details taken from J.P.Wild Vindolanda(1993) Vol III the Early wooden Forts new series, see Textiles.
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#13
Crispianus, correct! It is woven tape not tablet weave. I did call it tablet-weave-type decoration because of that ...
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#14
To me it's not very clear. Would leg wrappings (the 'textile "greaves"') be correct for a first century impression or not? I guess there's no evidence for soldiers wearing them in that period, the first being on the Constantine arch..?
Valete,
Titvs Statilivs Castvs - Sander Van Daele
LEG XI CPF
COH VII RAET EQ (part of LEG XI CPF)

MA in History
Reply
#15
Hello Sander

Sadly no it is not clear. If you are going from pictorial sources I think the earliest I found (and if anyone knows of anything earlier please let me know) were some early third century figures including one in the British Museum of Ares a weapons keeper.

The latter has a number of features on his legs which frankly can be interpreted in a number of ways because of course the colour is now missing. However it looks to me like he is wearing wrappings on his legs with the ties visible around the ankle and below the knee. A sculpture on display at the museum in Barcelona shows another soldier with practically the same sort of thing on his legs.

Although there are apparently no images, in written sources there are mentions of possible bindings fascia crurales much earlier and Augustus wore them according to Suetonius. Cicero further back also mentions some type of binding and a statue of Aeneas in military garb was also supposed to have black bindings on the legs according to the ancient historian Lydus.

A couple of first century military pay receipts also mention bindings fascia alongside the soldiers boots. The problem is that these could be bindings for either the legs or the feet. However in comparison with the other sources I have mentioned it would seem they were for the legs. It is just a pity that no images from the first century show them.

Nevertheless an example of a pill box hat which we normally associate in art with the period of the Tetrarchs has been found in a Hadrianic context. So it its possible that something may have existed that did not appear in the official art of the time.

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Any Tungrian Reenactors out there scotti73 2 1,082 07-03-2013, 07:12 AM
Last Post: jvrjenivs
  Getting ready for walking Hadrian\'s Wall ParthianBow 52 13,497 06-05-2013, 12:53 PM
Last Post: Robert Vermaat
  Hadrian\'s Wall Charity Walk Tony Riches 9 2,343 06-21-2010, 04:42 PM
Last Post: chrisanson

Forum Jump: