08-18-2011, 11:28 PM
Hi Francis,
The list is not complete: not only (I wrote this already) am I missing several ranks and posts which we fully know existed, but the list from Lydus is also not complete: I know there's a draconarius in that one. I wonder why Onur left it out, because the discussion about the continuity of the standard bearers is so interesting.. I will have to check Lydus and Vegetius again for a more complete list, but there are a great number of similarities already.
I’ve made a table with most corresponding grades. There are a number mentioned by all three lists, some by two, but also a number mentioned only by one of the three.
Some of these are not differing much (Lydus switches the order of the Bucinatores and Cornicines), some more (Vegetius has the Beneficarii much higher up than both Anastasios and Lydus, and vice versa with the Mensores). One, though, is particularly striking: the Imaginifer makes an almost free fall from among the signiferi (Vegetius), just above the musicians (Anastasios) down to the lowest grads (Lydus). I wonder why? Some changes are arbitrary, perhaps down to a mistake (Vegetius’ signiferi and Lydus’ musicians). Some clearly change place such as the Mensores (up) or the Beneficarii (down), but the evolution of the Imaginiferi is more striking. I wonder, perhaps this could be due to their link with the Imperial family, and the image(s) of the emperor(s) also being a pagan cult? Perhaps this downward move is due to the influence of Christianity.
Having said this, we should look at the lists themselves and wonder whether they can be compared. Vegetius is clearly writing theory, and he is often know to err when it comes to details. The Perge inscription indeed has military connections, but we are not sure what this list is all about. Military yes, but why only these names? Lydus is writing about offices, and I’m not sure where this one comes from. None compares fully to the lists we know from Hieronymus and Justinian, which show pay grades for the military (Jerome, cavalry) and civil servants based on the military in Africa (Justinian). Which is also why I’d like to be able to read the annonae…
The list is not complete: not only (I wrote this already) am I missing several ranks and posts which we fully know existed, but the list from Lydus is also not complete: I know there's a draconarius in that one. I wonder why Onur left it out, because the discussion about the continuity of the standard bearers is so interesting.. I will have to check Lydus and Vegetius again for a more complete list, but there are a great number of similarities already.
I’ve made a table with most corresponding grades. There are a number mentioned by all three lists, some by two, but also a number mentioned only by one of the three.
Some of these are not differing much (Lydus switches the order of the Bucinatores and Cornicines), some more (Vegetius has the Beneficarii much higher up than both Anastasios and Lydus, and vice versa with the Mensores). One, though, is particularly striking: the Imaginifer makes an almost free fall from among the signiferi (Vegetius), just above the musicians (Anastasios) down to the lowest grads (Lydus). I wonder why? Some changes are arbitrary, perhaps down to a mistake (Vegetius’ signiferi and Lydus’ musicians). Some clearly change place such as the Mensores (up) or the Beneficarii (down), but the evolution of the Imaginiferi is more striking. I wonder, perhaps this could be due to their link with the Imperial family, and the image(s) of the emperor(s) also being a pagan cult? Perhaps this downward move is due to the influence of Christianity.
Having said this, we should look at the lists themselves and wonder whether they can be compared. Vegetius is clearly writing theory, and he is often know to err when it comes to details. The Perge inscription indeed has military connections, but we are not sure what this list is all about. Military yes, but why only these names? Lydus is writing about offices, and I’m not sure where this one comes from. None compares fully to the lists we know from Hieronymus and Justinian, which show pay grades for the military (Jerome, cavalry) and civil servants based on the military in Africa (Justinian). Which is also why I’d like to be able to read the annonae…
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
