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Chester Fort Plans and Progress
#1
I thought that Id start a new and separate thread to follow the Chester fort plans and the progress.

[Image: romanfort-481373503.jpg]

Article here http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/cheste...-29176645/

A HUGE tourism project which would be the first of its kind in the world could be built in Cheshire.
The Roman Fort Project, the brainchild of Paul Harston, who runs Chester Roman Tours, would see a life-size 1st century Roman marching camp built using traditional Roman methods, tools and materials by costumed labourers.
The idea for the ‘living museum’ so impressed bosses at Barclays that Paul has been awarded £50,000 to get his ambitious project off the ground.
"It’s very exciting," said businessman Paul, who is seen by thousands of tourists and visitors every year in Chester city centre, dressed in his Roman regalia.

"Romans are my passion and this fort, which would cover more than two acres in an area of about 60 acres, would teach people about history and archeology with no ropes or barriers."
The not-for-profit project would include a replica of the Roman soldiers’ marching camps which covered the UK more than 2,000 years ago when they invaded Britain.
"We need to find a suitable piece of land first," said Paul. ", who took part in the biggest ever Roman weekend in the city as part of this year’s Chestival in June.We’re in negotiations with land owners in Cheshire and Flintshire."
He added: "We will build the fort as the Romans would have done it. It will be an education centre about Roman and Celtic culture and heritage."
"My father was passionate about Romans as well, and it was his idea to create a living environment for people to learn from. I’m developing his idea."
The fort would include ‘turf and earth’ ramparts, a trench ditch, gates and towers, roundhouses, workshops and the commander’s villa, which will show how the Roman middle classes lived.
There could also be authentic baths, under-floor heating, running water and mosaics.
"There are a lot of people interested in this project," said Paul.
"Anyone can help us build it and construction companies and archeologists already want to get involved," said Paul.
As well as building the fort, Paul wants to create a typical Roman landscape so visitors can experience what living in the 1st century would really have looked like.
"We will recreate the flora and fauna of Roman Britain and Wales. We want to see the fort in context," he said.
"Ecologists are getting involved, and crops will be grown as Romans would have grown them."
Paul has not yet decided on the scale of the fort, and said it will cater for between 160 and 480 ‘soldiers’.
He believes it is likely to take between five and seven years to build – a process that will a tourist attraction in itself.
"This will be a significant project for tourism in this region," he said. "There is nothing like this anywhere in the world."
The Roman Fort Project was the Welsh winner in the Barclays Take One Small Step competition to help small businesses.
The bank said more than 5,000 businesses registered to take part and they were whittled down to a shortlist of 27 ideas across nine UK regions by a regional panel of three judges.
The public then voted for their favourite online.
Once the living museum has been established – which will give visitors the opportunity to see the impact the Romans’ arrival had on the local population and the types of crafts and work they spent their days doing – visitors who want a more hardcore approach to their history can immerse themselves in fort life for a number of days, living the life of a 1st Century citizen.
"Once we get the land, our team will start to gather funds, investment and support," added Paul.
"I can’t wait – it’s going to be fantastic."
A Barclays spokesman said: "This year’s winners have clearly demonstrated a real flair and passion that has set them apart from the rest.
"They have displayed a fantastic mix of creativity, ingenuity and business acumen to capture the public’s imagination to drive votes and ultimately clinch the £50,000 prize money.
"I hope this competition is a springboard for long term success."
[Image: wip2_r1_c1-1-1.jpg] [Image: Comitatuslogo3.jpg]


aka Paul B, moderator
http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Moderation in all things
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#2
Sorry, but this sounds like a 50 000 000 GBP project, not a 50 000 one. What is the planeed stage A?
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#3
It would be great if they could pull that one off.

These days, attempting to re-create any historical object with the purpose of using it as a tourist attraction is hampred by several facts:

- safety: especially when any govermnet or insurance is involved in the financing or running of such a site, they can (and usually will) demand a lot of alterations that will prohibit the construction of a number of original features. Children, they seem to think, will attempt to climb on every wall and tower, determined to throw themselves down to either sure death or at least serious injury. To prevent this, high features must either be inaccessible or 'made safe' by mesh wire or something.

- finance: to pay for the building and maintainance of such a fort, a large number of tourists will be expected to visit the site each and every year. Over here, Archean made the mistake of imagining (in their wildest dreams) that 250.000 would stop by (comparable to the best-visited adventure parks in the Netherlands) and when this did not materialise (of course) and they survived their first bankruptcy, not they lowered their visitor expectations and raised the prices (again, comparable to the best-visited adventure parks in the Netherlands). These days, they seem to have found a reasonable package, but prices are way too high for me, anyway. A lot of school visits seem to add a lot of the balance.

- modern demands: the current tourist will only show up when they are entertained completely. Gone are the days when a lot of people would visit a site hidden in the woods, far off on a lone hilltop or just one where you had to walk for more than 10 minutes from any parking lot. These places are still these, but limited to the visit of the true diehards (like me). As we can see by the decade-long and hard-fought discussion over the visitor centre at Stonehenge, this illustrates the point that when you really want a large number of visitors (see the first two pints), you have to make allowances for accessability (a large car par close by), food (burgers and fries, and lots of it), and perhaps a large play area for the kids.

All of the above will of course diminish the originality of the site that is to be recreated. If they manage to do all that, it will be great.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#4
I think I am inclined to agree on some of the points that Robert has put forward, indeed having been a seasonal custodian with English Heritage in the past I most certainly agree on the health and safty issue let alone the management costs.
I think if any bank has any ideas about business at all they are going to want to know a lot before they consider giving £50,000 to anyone, which in my opinion is not anywhere at all what is needed for a project such as this.
Brian Stobbs
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#5
I think that's a very good perspective Robert. I hope that the organizer has or will look at the experiences of places like Archeon, and not go ahead blindly with a 'dream' that is not rooted in the real world.

A small-scale place near me, Murton Farming Museum has a Viking village and a 'small scale' children-sized Roman fort. The place earns its daily bread in school children. 90 a day, every day except weekends. My school wanted to visit, but there was a 2 year waiting list!!!!! :o

So again, I hope the organizer is looking at models like that, balancing what he would like (and presumably going from an authentic re-enactment view) with the realities of daily upkeep and maximum revenue......
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
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#6
This sounds like an amazing plan, and while I agree on the point about the cost of such a project, i hope perhaps once it is started rolling, the likes of the lottery fund etc will start to chip in!
I understood it to be a marching camp first...not too expensive to start with!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#7
With no acknowledgement that the painted image is by me or that the copyright is Greater Manchester Archaeological Unit!

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#8
Quote:With no acknowledgement that the painted image is by me or that the copyright is Greater Manchester Archaeological Unit!

Graham.

Knew I had seen that image somewhere.... :roll:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#9
A private group has built Castra Lafe in Arkansas USA using volunteer labor for around 100,000 US not including land. It is used for the annual event for reenactors only.
http://www.ad43.org/ There are no commercial Roman theme parks in North America. (hint hint)
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#10
Here is a photo of the children's Roman Fort at DANELAW CENTRE
FOR LIVING HISTORY


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John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#11
Quote:These days, attempting to re-create any historical object with the purpose of using it as a tourist attraction is hampred by several facts:

- safety: Children, they seem to think, will attempt to climb on every wall and tower, determined to throw themselves down to either sure death or at least serious injury. To prevent this, high features must either be inaccessible or 'made safe' by mesh wire or something.

- finance: to pay for the building and maintainance of such a fort, a large number of tourists will be expected to visit the site each and every year.

- modern demands: the current tourist will only show up when they are entertained completely. As we can see by the decade-long and hard-fought discussion over the visitor centre at Stonehenge, this illustrates the point that when you really want a large number of visitors (see the first two pints), you have to make allowances for accessability (a large car par close by), food (burgers and fries, and lots of it), and perhaps a large play area for the kids.

I agree that these are issues which will require careful thought, but a bit of imagination can go a long way.

Access to walls/high places: A sentry at the top of the wall, a legionary polishing his gear (near the stairs), a pair of labourers 'taking a break' (near the stairs), etc.

finance: This is a major issue for every new tourist attraction. However, the size and nature of the venue means that it may be able to offer some more novel attractions, such as private/semi-private evening dinners/events or a weekend "legionary training" camp once it is established. I admit to being uncertain as to what can be done during the first year or so when it is mostly a fence or two and a big hole in the ground, however. Perhaps a tent camp?

modern demands: A carpark can be hidden behind a berm or palisade, with a smattering of pseudo-roman food stands selling things like sausages on rolled bread, mock beer/real beer, or even that ticklish beverage from across the "Pep Sea".
--------
Ross

[url="http://galeforcearmoury.blogspot.com"] Working on a segmentata.[/url]
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#12
Arbeia, in it's limited way, seems to manage quite well and now wins awards for the Council for tourism etc so generates more funding.

I believe the success of the gate and the Commander's House led to the building of the bath house at Segedunum, then a barrack block at Arbeia.

Best of luck to the project; I at least hope it is a success.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#13
Best of luck in this. I really hope there aren't too many sacrifices to be made to get it done.
At work, we call it "The Stupid Factor". Because someone's stupid kid is going to (insert dumb thing).
Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam
"I\'ll Either Find A Way Or Make One" from Hannibal

John Pruitt
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#14
I took part in the public enquiry for the Gateway at Arbeia and there were some greater powers involved at that project, and there are greater powers of local government still involved as yet.
I was for the gateway at that time however that is not the original planned building, and it was archaeologists that took everyone involved off to Germany where afterward we have a lot of Xanten influence.
Though it was good to get the thing built I still say yet that the gate would not have been of that type, in fact also in a region of so much limestone there would not have been white rendered buildings such as the barracks nor also a white bathhouse at Segedunum but then when you build in breeze blocks you have to hide them somehow.
Brian Stobbs
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#15
Good luck. I truly hope this works out. Theres lots of Historical reconstructions about that have managed to remain open despite the "stupid factor". The Lunt has a wooden gate house and a later dated Mountfitchet Castle in Essex is another good example. I am more than willing to donate some of my time to trench digging. Hopefully the TV will get involved like the recent villa reconstructions.
Richard Craig AKA Aulus Maximus
Cohors I Tungrorum
Cohors I Batavorum
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