Sparring/stage dagger blade?

[Dan D'Silva]

Hello,

So, five weeks before Marathon, I find myself in sudden want of a rebated dagger that will stand up to several days of staged combat -- deflecting spears and swords, slamming on shields, etc. It needs to be about 12 inches long and an inch or so at the shoulders.

Have written to Darkwood but no reply yet. Any suggestions in the meantime?

Thank you!

[Dan D'Silva]

Does anyone have thoughts on the blade on this dagger:
Stage Combat Jerusalem Dagger

It's a bit short and not really accurate thanks to the ricasso and fuller, but it's the closest thing I've yet to stumble across.

[Titus Marius Secundus]

Sorry but yuck lol...are you looking for Roman right? If it's just anything that can take a beating...then um...haha....I don't know :mad:

[M. Demetrius]

Dan, this blade would probably do just fine for the work you intend, but the grip, guard, and pommel look more like 1000AD than Marathon. Might pass the 50 foot rule, but not the 10 foot.

However, you can most likely unscrew the pommel, and remake the handle in another way that will look perhaps more like a xiphos, if that's what you're after.

[Dan D'Silva]

That's the plan. It's for an akinakes actually; I've made the hilt parts already.

[M. Demetrius]

Well, we'd like some before, during, and after photos. Many people have taken stock blades and reworked them to be closer to Roman/Greek swords.

[Dan D'Silva]

What do you all think is a good safe spine thickness for a sparring dagger? 4mm? 5mm? 1/4 inch?

[Cerco 21]

Depend vastly on the steel alloy, for higher steel alloys such as CrMb you'll be safe with 3mm, lower steel alloys I'd say you're right with the 4/5mm don't EVER EVER use Stainless Steel since it's a brittle material.

[Dan D'Silva]

I ask because I ordered what's intended to be a stage blade from a fencing company and rather foolishly failed to ask about the thickness. It's only 3mm at the spine. I've just called and the company is unable to provide the specific alloy, only that it's high-carbon. So I dunno whether to keep it or send it back and keep searching.

[M. Demetrius]

We once had a sword fight on stage (2 pairs simultaneously) and we practiced with thin yardsticks. That helped people come to the understanding that you can't hit steel against steel with any force, or someone gets hurt. We made all the sticks the same length as the blades that would be used, but not the same weight, of course. Should probably have taped washers or something on to equal the weight, too, I guess.

But the fight came off just fine, and the people did not make hard contact with steel or bodies. It was ok to strike the shields with some force, to generate the noise, but nobody minded that.

So the important thing to remember, no matter how the stage blade is constructed is that practice, rehearsal, thought, practice, and rehearsal will help prevent injuries. Any blade can be broken. We decided that it would only work (we did the presentation 5 times) if we had duplicate blades for each person. So we ordered two of each. Had no problems with that. Did I say practice was important? Well it is.

[Cerco 21]

I ask because I ordered what's intended to be a stage blade from a fencing company and rather foolishly failed to ask about the thickness. It's only 3mm at the spine. I've just called and the company is unable to provide the specific alloy, only that it's high-carbon. So I dunno whether to keep it or send it back and keep searching.

High Carbon is a bit meaningless, you need to know alloy, temper etc etc etc. Most metals have a designation, which you can lookup on the table of several manufacturers.

Here is a cross reference table with designations (from Kennametal) from DIN / AISI / Anfor etc. After knowing the metal you can lookup it's properties, you'll be looking for it's Young Modulus and breaking strain. The higher the better, but you should also look at it elongation graphic.

[attachment=1526]TabelaComparaoMat.Metalicos.pdf[/attachment]

Now this is all very theoretical and very very boring, so what I found that works equally well is to have a piece of rail some 50 cm long and whack it 2 or 3 times as hard as you can with your blade, if it doesn't dent or break it's a good one!!!

"insert t-shirt here reading: Trust me I'm an Engineer"

[Dan D'Silva]

You sure don't kid around hock: Not yet sure I want to subject it to potential damage. Darkwood got back to me yesterday, haven't said directly whether they can get a blade made and shipped in time. It seems a slim chance by this date, but if they can, I'd much rather return the one I've got and go with one of theirs.

I know "high-carbon" isn't a really meaningful term, but it's not the first time a company has been unable to tell me anything more.