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The purpose of the Antonine Wall
#1
What was the rationale behind the construction of the Antonine Wall? I’m reading Michael Grant’s The Antonines and he gives a couple weak possibilities:

1. Hadrian’s Wall was too far away to be in touch with the principal centres of opposition.
2. Antoninus Pius had to have a military “victory” to cement his support domestically.
3. A symbol of Roman sovereignty calculated to overawe tribes (and Hadrian’s Wall wasn’t?).
4. Trade.

I’m uncomfortable with all these reasons. Any ideas?
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#2
You'd probably have to first decide what the purpose of Hadrian's wall was - itself a debatable issue!

I suspect the answer to your question lies in the relations between Rome and the various tribal groups of northern Britain, about which we know very little. There's a (possibly dubious) passage in Pausanias about Antoninus Pius campaigning against the Brigantes, whose territories lay south of and perhaps across Hadrian's wall, and taking away their land. This is the passage that mentions 'Genunia', an otherwise-unknown place, and it's been suggested that Pausanias is actually referring to events in Raetia...

But we do know, from other scattered references, that the Brigantes were both powerful and at various times antagonistic to Rome. The tribes further north - Votadini, Selgovae and Novantae, if we believe Ptolemy - get no such mentions, and might be presumed to be more amicable towards the Romans after their initial conquest under Agricola.

Possibly these tribes, under pressure from less pacific northern neighbours, wanted to be taken into the protection of Roman military control? Possibly the Brigantes continued to be hostile, and the northern movement of the line of control was intended to sandwich them between other tribal groups with firmer treaties of allegiance - the Votadini etc acting as a buffer, in effect, to contain the Brigantes? Possibly the Brigantes themselves, or some sub-group of them, had shifted across Hadrian's wall and were stirring up the border regions, and the new wall was needed to keep them in check?

Alternatively, perhaps the Romans had just acquired better intelligence by this point about the networks of affiliations of tribes in the region, and felt that a more northern line would better demarcate their sphere of influence and allow a firmer control of trade routes passing between the tribes?

- Nathan
Nathan Ross
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#3
I have often mentioned the frontier discovered by the late Raymond Selkirk known as the 255 line, this may well have been the work of Trajan at the time of a withdrawl from Scotland by the Romans around 98-100AD.
This 255 line has forts every roman mile from 5 miles north of the Tyne mouth across the country to Maryport on the Cumbrian coast.
It is just after this we loose the XI Legion and in comes Hadrian Copies what Trajan did but swings this 255 line around just west of Vindovala (Rudchester) and takes the line to the Solway and puts in shore forts all the way down to Maryport (hence Hadrian's Wall)
Then problems at a later date cause Antoninus to leave Hadrian's Wall and build another on the previous Agricolan line at the narrow point of Scotland, problems may have been resolved and we return to Hadrian's Wall.
It is known that with the advent of Hadrian there were prblems all around the fringes of the Empire which may have continued for some time for the adoptive emperors.
Brian Stobbs
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#4
Quote:Antoninus to leave Hadrian's Wall

Was Hadrian's Wall abandoned during the time the Antonine Wall was in active use? I remember someone's theory that both walls were in use simultaneously, perhaps to complement each other.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#5
I think it has been said by historian's that Hadrian's Wall was abandoned at that time but not too long after the armies returned, however one has to maybe consider was there any garrisons left there to hold that.
The Novantae and the Selgovae tribes were more trouble in earlier times and may have connected with the Brigantes to cause problems, for we learn that there was great trouble in Britain around 117-119AD
The withdrawl from Scotland about 100AD may have been an earlier idea of even Domitian, and because Nerva did not last so long it was not implemented until about the time of Trajan who threw a line of forts right through the west Brgantian area of lower Cumbria hence the 255 line.
Brian Stobbs
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#6
It stopped the sheep straying north, Hadrians Wall kept them from straying south... 8)
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#7
Byron
That is about one of the best answers todate but then that might just be the reason for all the bother of just who these sheep belonged to, the Jock's or we Geordies!!!
Brian Stobbs
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#8
The Geordies of course...
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#9
There are two basic functions of any wall:

To keep things out, and to keep things in.

With Hadrians wall, there is much debate, however the Antonine wall with its lily pits is clearly defensive in origin.

M.VIB.M.
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.

Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!

H.J.Vrielink.
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#10
There is not much written evidence of problems in the Antonine period but are these lily pits of the Antonine era, for if so it does look like a very drastic measure and also to have moved the garrisons up from Hadrian's Wall.
Brian Stobbs
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#11
I think that as far as debate about Hadrian's Wall it becomes evident that after a previous frontier line, it becomes better to use the two river system for it's supply which is the Irthing and the Tyne using barges.
Brian Stobbs
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#12
Quote:What was the rationale behind the construction of the Antonine Wall?
I've always liked the idea that it was somebody's cunning plan to reduce the size of garrison commitment to a linear frontier – a shorter wall needed fewer troops to man. The fact that it was given up then suggests that this cunning plan, when faced with reality, didn't work.

In truth, there are as many possible explanations as there are beer mats to write them on and they are all worth exactly the same.

Mike Bishop (currently walking The Wall, not the cheap northern imitation)
You know my method. It is founded upon the observance of trifles

Blogging, tweeting, and mapping Hadrian\'s Wall... because it\'s there
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#13
Mike Bishop (currently walking The Wall, not the cheap northern imitation)

Ah, so you are in China ?

Wink

M.VIB.M.
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.

Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!

H.J.Vrielink.
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#14
Their are a few books devoted to the Antonine wall Bailey states that the first 2 forts were defensive on strataegic routes North and states that their were changes to the original design from Stone wall like Hadrians to Turf and Wood.
Byron is not far off in his view re animals as bailey says that the fortlets were designed to protect animals and supplies. What you deduct of this I dont know other than ready for manourvres north.Having walked some miles of the wall in Kit in pouring down rain and mist It wasnt very nice!
Gaius Julius promethius Miccinius - Legionary XIIII (RMRS)

Gaius Julius Promethius Miccinius - Centurion VIIII (Beyond the northern frontier)


"The Eyes see everything" - "Even what the brain is thinking"
Steve Eckersley
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