Amount of overlap on segmentata shoulder lames

[Magnus]

I have an elaborate story in terms of my reenactment persona, but basically it amounts to a field repair. And I like it. And I'm the centurion. And the group leader for my cohort. :twisted:

[kazeryu]

Just to clarify - I'm not looking for "exact numbers" to copy. I'm asking mainly because there seems to be a fair variety in terms of how far down the arms the plates go -- for some people it's almost down to their elbow, for others it's just over the tops of their shoulders. (In your pictures you seem to have struck a happy medium).

The only explanation for this is that either people are using wildly different widths of shoulder plates or else they are varying their amount of overlap considerably. (Or else a surprising number of you are short-limbed dwarfs) It appears that we have historical evidence telling us we shouldn't be doing the former, ergo I am asking if there is any evidence regarding the latter.

Am I making any sense? :|

Maybe I should just go look at steles and trajan's column and try to reconcile their images with unearthed finds and the average dimensions of a roman legionary, but I was hoping for a simpler answer.

[sulla felix]

Why not look at the Corbridge finds - the actual artefacts? Looking at what other reenactors do will reveal just how much variation there is and how much people just ignore the evidence because they know better (apparently)! Leg XX drawings are to scale and are correct and based on the finds themselves. If you look at those there is no way that the plates should be hanging down to your elbows or anywhere even close IMHO!

[Gaius Colletti]

According to Matt Amt's site, my 3" shoulder guards are rather large compared to the original. I will say that although in my profile picture, the shoulder guards appear to be going to my elbow, but that is the angle of my arm holding my sword grip, though it still hangs further down than halfway.

I don't know enough about actual finds to comment, but I will say, I have seen plenty of pictures of reenactors with kits more authentic than mine with the shoulder guards only going to the mid-arm, oftentimes less than that.

Though I doubt anyone is going to call you out and mock you because your segmentata goes down nearly to your elbow, and if they do, they're an ass lol

[Magnus]

Barry, lets not assume people are being ignorant simply because they have a seggie that fits them differently. That in itself is ignorant. We dont even know if these "people" you speak of purchased their armor, or made it.

If you stick with the legio xx site, and cover up the rivets like I did on mine, yours will turn out fine.

[sulla felix]

Don't recall calling anybody ignorant Matt. As I am sure you know there is a difference between chosing to ignore evidence and being ignorant of it - just suggesting it might be an idea to look at evidence rather than assume reenactors are all doing it correctly and blindly copy them. But we digress...

[Magnus]

Oh my apologies then. I guess it's ok to make comments like that as long as you only name a group of people instead of individuals lol. And you did say "people just ignore the evidence because they know better". I guess that is like saying someone is acting stupid, vs calling them stupid.

I'm all sorted out now, thanks.

[M. Demetrius]

It should bend down your arm when your arm is hanging down. Perhaps you have the leather strips too tight? (this assumes your avatar is how the finished shoulder/chest section looks.)

[Gaius Colletti]

Yes Ventus, shame on you for not posting a picture on your own thread! lol I did mean to mention before that even when my lesser shoulder guards are completely straightened out, the internal leather is still loose and not completely straight.

I will say, IMO that with the lesser shoulder guards hanging right down to your arms, it does make thrusting/throwing movements a bit harder, perhaps something inbetween? Though if you don't do anything to it, I wouldn't say its the end of the world, others might, I wouldn't...

[kazeryu]

Disclaimer: Yes I know the hinges are both crude and non-historical, I've already discussed that in the relevant blog posts.

[attachment=1417]smaller.JPG[/attachment]

It should bend down your arm when your arm is hanging down. Perhaps you have the leather strips too tight? (this assumes your avatar is how the finished shoulder/chest section looks.)

Agreed, I am not happy with the current result - but that's why it's a prototype. To make a long story short, I have done some experimenting with a different shoulder section and I believe I have a (potentially) novel solution. I might make a separate thread for it and cross-post from my blog once I sort out my thoughts and pictures more intelligibly.

[Titus Marius Secundus]

This is a good idea, a dummy one, but just a quick word..
I think the leather strap should in general, even when the plates decrease in size, join the plates at an angular direction.....so....the middle strap connects to the plates in the middle ( straight) but the outer straps extend at an enclosing angle..si? So ....that and less tightness....that's just my opinion.

[kazeryu]

That's definitely part of the issue in this shoulder section, Sam. I mentioned on the blog that I punched the riveting holes according to a pattern I was using, and that turned out to... um... not yield the expected results, shall we say.

A bit of forethought on my part would have warned me that something was wrong, but I guess that's why I'm making a prototype first. Live and learn!

[Magnus]

Make sure the leather is well oiled, then work the straps...scrinch them, move them around. They will lose some of their stiffness.

[sulla felix]

Oh my apologies then. I guess it's ok to make comments like that as long as you only name a group of people instead of individuals lol. And you did say "people just ignore the evidence because they know better". I guess that is like saying someone is acting stupid, vs calling them stupid.

I'm all sorted out now, thanks.

Glad you grasped the point Matt.

The attached pictures may help (courtesy of Matt Lukes - the master seg maker).

The leathers still have play in them even when inverted and laid out flat. You will also note that the breast plate widths have a significant impact on the rest of the armour. Get those sitting right and to the right dimensions and everything else flows naturally from there.

[kazeryu]

Thanks Barry, your pictures have made me pause and revise my thoughts on the solution.