Curved Scuta and Spatha

[Paul Elliott]

Can you help me understand a historical problem, the change of shield from curved scutum to round shield? Is it possible to effectively use the long spatha with the rectangular design? Do those sharp corners block any effective slash attacks? In the same vein could the spatha be used in the same way as the gladius, ie as a thrusting weapon?

Hope this is in the right forum....

[Albertomv]

It probably linked to the recruitment of foreing troops and the heavy looses of equipment during the third century civil wars.

Around this time totally changes the appearance of the Roman legionary, dissapears the gallic and imperial helmets (replaced by persian and sarmatian models: ridge helmet, spangenhelm), the tradicional scutum (returning to oval and flat shields), and the gladius hispanienses is replaced by the long spatha (hanging now on left side) and segmentata is abandoned.

[Paul Elliott]

Yes. But can the curved scutum physically be used with the spatha. It is a weapon suited to the oval shield, I've not done any combat with the large rectangualar shield, does the cutting manouvre of the spatha work with such a large bulky shield? Can it be done?

I'm questioning the reconstructions of soldiers wearing spatha and carrying rectangular scutum really.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I actually find fighting with the flat oval scutum very awkward,
and unnatural. I feel far too open to attack.
However, I also find a few issues with the totally squared scutum.
The best allround fighting scutum I have used so far is the augustan
type.

However, I have yet to fight with a curved oval or round scutum.
A stabbing attack is perfectly feasible with the spatha as well as the shorter gladius.
I just prefer the gladius, as if you are blocked with the spatha, it means you have a lot of blade to remanouver to get the point back on target.

[richard robinson]

I have had experience fighting with all these combinations and I while the big curved scutum is clunky it is wonderful protection. That said I favour the flat oval shield as It is very manouverable. I would say that each combination is just something you learn as in wearing different clothes from different periods- there is a knack....(It is hard to pogo in a toga for example)

I have always thought that the ultimate change from curved scutum to flat- apart from the ethnocentric argument was likely to be one of economics as more barbarian hordes were conscripted to fight other barbarian hordes and Roman banking went literally underground.

[Peroni]

Hi Paul,

I use a curved shield with rounded top and bottom in combination with a spatha. I find it works a whole lot easier than a flat-topped rectangular shield.

You can use a slashing blow beneath the shield better too. (going for a leg attack)and still be adequately protected.

[Robert Vermaat]

I have always thought that the ultimate change from curved scutum to flat- apart from the ethnocentric argument was likely to be one of economics as more barbarian hordes were conscripted to fight other barbarian hordes and Roman banking went literally underground.

Why would the change have been from curved scutum to flat? The later Roman scuta were also curved, or rather, dished.

[richard robinson]

Robert that is absolutely true
and the Normans used curved shield 800 years later and the hollow shield seems never to have gone out of favour.
So where did I get the flat shield notion from?
Possibly warefare In the classical world which was, and still is, a great work.
Possibly the influence for these ideas are the danish shields from circa 400 ace,
However
I am still going to hold onto the flat shield notion- used in conjunction with dished shields. Economically (which was my implication) they would be quicker to produce?
regards
Richard

[Paul Elliott]

Well mine is flat, I based mine on the dozen flatish shields found at Dura Europus. Later shields were flat or dished it seems.

So where did I get the flat shield notion from?