Thrakian scuta question

[richard robinson]

I am enjoying the photos from fellow gladiators /gladiatrix
However I am (at the moment) fascinated with the various sizing of the thrakian shields people are making and using as they are a lot larger than I had ever envisaged going from terracotta figurines and the odd mozaic.
I am sure that there are reliefs and mozaics that show them as large as folk are making but I cant visualise them specifically. Does anyone have a favourite image to share on this question?

However my real question is this
Have Thrakians using a round shield been totally discounted with the advent of Junkelmans works- or are people still thinking that they could be square or round?
regards
Richard Robinson

[Olaf]

Concerning the round sutum - or rather parmula - of the Thraex Galdiator:
I think this can be considered an error of interpretation. There are no iconographic sources showing a parmularius with the curved or bent sword (Sica) of the Thraex and a round shield.
The Armatura that is using a round parmula is the Hoplomachus wich is shown using a straight sword and thrusting spear.

As for the size of the Thraex rectangular parmula Junkelmann gives the measures 60cm x 60cm but does not indicate how he arrived at these measures.
I think I also heard a thesis once that the inner rectangle of the Dura Scutum would corespond to the sice of a TZhraex Parula, but I dont know why these two should have a connection.

[richard robinson]

Thanks Olaf. I suspected as much.
I can understand the word parmula- can u source it at all or is it common knowledge that has escaped me ( though of course i am sure i have seen it on rat previously...)??

Do you agree with Junkelmann's measurements?

And re the scuta thesis interesting- especially as I am intending to make mine from failed imperial scuta blanks mile:


One day I hope to be as helpful to you- but you seem to have all the answers/ resources!

regards
richard

[Olaf]

Parma or the diminutive Parmula is the Latin word for a small shield as opposed to the large scutum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parma_(shield)

The Armaturae of Murmillo and Secutor (and possibly the Essedarius and Provocator as well) were grouped under the name "Scutarii" while the Aramturae of Thraex and Hoplomachus (and possibly the later Retiarius as well) would be called "Parmularii".
As in the classic pairings the "bigshields" would be faced with "smallshields" fans would support either the Scutarii or Parmularii respectvely.
Even emperors were sometimes considered biased in favor of one kind of fighter over the other.

As there is no material evidence and iconography is difficult to interpret concerning exact measures I can only say from experience that a curved Parmula from 60x60 plates handles quite good and fast.
I have also experimented with a 60 height by 80 width measure so the curve would result in a 60x60 frontage. This would give the same overal curve as an average Scutum, but handles a little slower.
As we can sometimes see Thraex Parmula with an horizontal grip in iconography the measures and construction of a Parmula mighht have varied in time or even in differnet parts of the Roman world.

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

However my real question is this
Have Thrakians using a round shield been totally discounted with the advent of Junkelmans works- or are people still thinking that they could be square or round?
regards
Richard Robinson

The thraex is using the square shield and the sizes Olaf mentioned also correspond to the ones of the parmula of our thraex.

The round shield is associated with the hoplomachus (the one with similar defensive gear but with a lance instead of the sica). This could be either a round shield just slightly curved or even very deeply curved resembling a "wok" cooking pan.

[richard robinson]

Thank you both of you. How would you differentiate between the term parmula and clipeus- which is a term I have seen used to describe shields of similar dimensions- round- and likely associated with republican round cavalry (bronze?) shields- and so I have used it for the aquilla/ signifer shield for ages.
Semantics i hnow- but of onterest.
regards
Richard Robinson

[Medusa Gladiatrix]

If I'm not mistaken clipeus would be the large flat oval shiel of the auxiliary troops, so nothing which you find in the gladiatura.

[M. Demetrius]

Unless I'm wrong again, the suffix -ula or -ila is just a diminutive. Caliga, caligula, Prisca, Priscilla. Parma, parmula. So as already stated, the parmula would be a small, round shield, which some might call a buckler.

[richard robinson]

M. Demetrius I am agreeing with the differentuation between palma and palmula etc. As Medusa says there is a fair degree of variation betwen the shield found and thise depicted in mosaics etc..

Medusa i was not aware that there was any real differentiation in the language for the name of objects and so did a "bare minimum google image search" And I am glad I did because I found this very informative link
http://www.socalcoins.com/collection/cae...ric42a.htm
which is describing exactly what i was talking about (excerpt for maybe the virtue)
And we must agree we have seen shields of this type being carried by various gladiators??

I will admit that the google image search did also turn up pictures of auxillary shields : :-)
Regards
Richard

[Forty-One]

And we must agree we have seen shields of this type being carried by various gladiators??

No. Shields of the type shown there are never shown in use by Roman gladiators. The ¨clipeus virtutis" is obviously meant to represent an archaic Greek shield. Images of Nike/Victoria painting dedicatory inscriptions onto such a shield are a common trope in ancient art.

I would not get too hung up on the Latin names used for various types of shield. There was almost no consistency in how the words were used by the Romans (at least not in any of the writings which have survived). The pedantic pseudo-technical use of the various Latin words is a modern invention.

Your clipeus is also called a parma by some writers (e.g. Livy when writing about Roman hoplites). Martial talks of a pair of evenly matched gladiators at the inaugural games in the colosseum (and thus probably essedarii or provocatores?) both equipped with parmae - although moderns would insist that their shields were called scutae. Moderns call a flat oval or rectangular shield a clipeus, although Caesar and Livy explicitly call those things scuta. It´s all a big mess.

Yes, a parmula was a small parma - whatever a parma was in any particular case. About the only consistent thing is that a scutum implies a large shield that covers most of the body (but then so did a clipeus sometimes, and sometimes even a parma did too...)

[Forty-One]

...the parmula would be a small, round shield, which some might call a buckler.

Except that Junkelmann and others are calling the rectangular shield carried by [what are usually identified as] Thraeces a parmula. I don´t know what his ancient source for that is [if any], other than that Thraeces are usually counted amongst the parmularii. In gladiatorial terminology, at least, a parmula appears to have been the traditional name for a small shield of any shape. There are gladiators shown with both round and rectangular small shields.

[M. Demetrius]

Certain gladiators carried round shields, either mostly flat (Equites) or dished (Hoplomachus) for example. Secutors, Provocators, and Murmilos carried a rectangular shield. What they called them, exactly, is not easy to say.

[Olaf]

...the parmula would be a small, round shield, which some might call a buckler.

Except that Junkelmann and others are calling the rectangular shield carried by [what are usually identified as] Thraeces a parmula. I don´t know what his ancient source for that is [if any], other than that Thraeces are usually counted amongst the parmularii. In gladiatorial terminology, at least, a parmula appears to have been the traditional name for a small shield of any shape. There are gladiators shown with both round and rectangular small shields.

Exactly the word Parma or Parmula in a Gladiatorial context means either the small round or dished shield of the Hoplomachus or the small square curved one of the Thraex.
This is because historicaly the usual pairing would pit a Parmularius (either a Thraex or Hoplomachus) against the Scutarius of the Murmillo armatura.
It seems though that Parmularii could fight amongst themselves as we have images of Thraex fighting Thraex or Hoplomachoi.

[richard robinson]

[attachment=1403]clipeus.jpg[/attachment]
I accept that the common usage may be/ become parma/parmulus (sp?)
However
I feel that the round shield shown in this relief might also be called a clipeus,
to my eye it is an echo or emulation of the hellenic aspis and it is commonly depicted in Roman art
Regards
Richard (who is enjoying the morsels of thought and fact flashing through the digital ether)