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Hey RAT! I was wondering, it's obvious probably half a million or so people died fighting for the Romans, but we haven't found anywhere near as that in excavations! I have seen very few sword examples found...so, we do know of many battle fields, have they been excavated? THEY SHOULD BE! Anyway, this might go somewhere, and I was wondering, so any useful info would be nice  ...also..in deserts ...with hardly any rain, there would be a high survival chance for metals etc, are their any such things found?
Thanks in advance, I know it's random 
Samuel J.
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Battlefields are rarely full of archaeological pieces as the victorious army often combed the field and took away most valuable objects (weapons, armours, jewelry, etc.) with them. This means that apart from rotting bodies and clothing, few metal pieces were left there for us to find. Captured equipement could be re-used until it fell apart, then melted or reforged into something new that had nothing to do with the original object. How many nails might have been, originally, pilum heads? Or helmets cut into metal parts which were used as scales for armours or whatever?
Furthermore, iron and wooden objects tend to degrade rapidly if not buried in a particular set of conditions (which explains why we find brass and bronze objects in better condition than iron ones). So, we have a natural bias against iron and organic objects in the archaeological record.
And finally, battlefields tend to be quite large, so you have to be very lucky when digging to actually find something worthwhile.
Most archaeological pieces we have today seem to have been either discarded for some reason (like an offering to the Gods), lost by accident or thrown away as garbage. There again, another bias that works against us.
Danny Deschenes
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Quintus is right, excavating potential battlefields usually don't give us a lot of material, but in my oppinion, such projects are essential to ancient history. I'm from Croatia (ancient Illyricum, later Dalmatia & Panonia) where a lot of roman armies fought, and suprisingly many times lost. 99% of locations of battles ar known (as the participants, number of legions, opponents and leading roman generals), due to recent scientific activity of professor Bilić-Dujmušić, ancient war historian. If we could explore those battlefields and find usefull material (no doubt there would be) we could actually be more precise about roman tactics in this area.
Most of these battles are fought in a republican era, last dating to Augustus' campaign 35-33. B. C., and the rising of Bato 6-9. A. D., in which Tiberius fought as a leading general. But these battles and excavations can show us strategically what was Illyricum all about. The position and building of the roads, and intentions of roman politics in that time. Same could be done to other provinces.
It is not these well-fed long-haired men that I fear, but the pale and the hungry-looking.
Fedja.
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In the ancient world, where metals etc were very valuable, they were obsessed with looting battlefields. Just read the Illiad, they were at it even while the combat was still going on!
To try and get a slightly more modern view, think of the field as being littered with fifty pound notes....
Vale
Fruitbat
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What I have read many battlefields yield only small broken fragments a few coins and in the case of Legionary battlefields a fair number of hobnails. A few where conditions prevented salvage yield a lot of spear heads and other items that may have become stuck in or trammeled into the ground. Also besides battlefield looting there is post Roman era salvage like the British Farmer who found a Roman chain and just starting using it for his farm work! It looks like much more military gear is found in post battle sacrificial contexts/locations than is found at actual battle sites.
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Excavations of battlefields is not just about finding swords, javelins or any big metal pieces. Naturally, it would be great to find them in big hoards but it's not the only thing. There are a lot of battle descriptions in ancient sources, but not all of them understood what really happened. Case in point is Polybius and Livy and their description of the battle at Cynoscephalae. Ok, maybe not the best example because Livy obviously made a big mistake in describing how the units advanced in the field, but, recent preliminary excavations show an inclination towards Polybius' account. The same could be used to describe how did the siege of different poleis worked.
Example is Delminium, the main city of the Delmatae (Illyricum, later the province got it's name after them Delmatae - Dalmatia), which was besieged first by Gaius Marcius Figulus in 156. B. C. but he couldn't take the town because of the strategical position of the citadel. It really is a very difficult position to take. So he modified his scorpions and burned the city from ground. Next year Publius Corneius Scipio Nasica went for it and he did it. But we wouldn't know how he did it, with the usage of siege weapons, if the the preliminary sonding of the area around it didn't show remains of led, tips of arrows, parts of swords. Siege weaponry was found on the top of the cliff from where Nasica decided to attack. Those excavations showed really great stuff.
For now, i think the best usage from excavating battlefields is to confirm the words sources left us, and to map the location of battles maybe in some sort of an geographical (military) atlas of the roman world.
It is not these well-fed long-haired men that I fear, but the pale and the hungry-looking.
Fedja.
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It is also worth pointing out that examination of mass graves, such as the one discovered dating from the Battle of Towton, can tell us a wealth of information about the men who fought in the battles.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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ahhhh all very good! Well, I can't wait to start rummaging through all the dirt!!! Ugh, it would be bloody awesome to find a legionary ( dead of course :-P ) buried in the desert sands, with shield, sword, pilum, armor! I wonder if there is such a thing, surely! After all, there have been finds of legionaries being found in siege tunnels, where they died either being trapped, or chemical warfare! Yes, in the middle east, they developed or discovered some type of chemical that could be ( thrown alight?) and suffocate the enemy. It was in a National Geographic Magazine! There have been late Roman shields found...a couple...with the paint still there, just warped.
Samuel J.
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You might find the legionary, but he would be unlikely to have retained his equipment for us to see. Unfortunately for us, weapons and armour would be exactly what the victorious side would be intending to retrieve from the battlefield after the fighting was over. It could then be reused to re-equip men with damaged equipment or to equip new recruits
The Bayeux Tapestry is the closest we have to a contemporary picture of a battle dating to before the seventeenth century, as it was probably made within seven years of the Battle of Hastings, which it depicts. Have a look at this panel, which comes from very near the end and have a look at what is going on in the lower border.
http://webfronter.com/ealing/west_twyfor...bayeux.jpg
We would have every reason to expect to see the same activity following any ancient battle.
In any case, battlefields are normally notoriously difficult to identify precisely, meaning that even finding the bodies of the slain can be virtuously impossible. The Towton mass grave was a chance discovery, even though the site of the battle was fairly accurately known. Around 28,000 men died that day. We have found 43 of them. :roll:
http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/archsci/depar...rp/towton/
As to chemical warfare, the reports may be somewhat exaggerated. Although the Persians at Dura did manage to produce mustard gas which killed the (probably already wounded) Roman soldiers, they probably did so more by accident than planning, as they do not seem to have repeated such a tactic elsewhere so were probably were not aware of exactly what they had done to produce the deadly cloud.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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Sam, may i ask what age you are ?
M.VIB.M.
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.
Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!
H.J.Vrielink.
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I'm in my teens, so no, not a reenactor, or the smartest guy around. Answered?
Samuel J.
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Yes, thank you !! I like your enthusiasm, and when you keep reading and studying we might see you one day in the field of Archaeology. The members of this forum will always be happy to help you along Ah by the way, a late Roman battlefield was excavated in Germany and there should be a thread on this site somewhere. It was not a thoroughly cleaned battlefield, and stretched for about a mile.
M.VIB.M.
Bushido wa watashi no shuukyou de gozaru.
Katte Kabuto no O wo shimeyo!
H.J.Vrielink.
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There is no need to apologise about your age Sam. You are a lot closer to being are-enactor than I was at sixteen and I think you are showing an admirable attitude to asking questions (none of which are stupid by the way) and making things for yourself. When I was your age I was still making model aircraft.
Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:
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teehee :oops: thanks, I appreciate the acceptance haha. I was wondering if there were other kids on here...  hock: O.M.G like, I bet they're playing Modern Warfare beating there 6-8 hour all in one go record! I know too many kids like that...I actually played RTW for 8 hours in one day. My only day off then, so it was spent relaxing on single player as I hadn't discovered multiplayer yet, but all the time I've spent on RTW, Star Wars Battlefront II, and yes, even, some Call of Duty Modern Warfare, I wish I hadn't...kinda one of those things you regret when you're 40, but it hit me early ad: I am proud to say I haven't touched a game in about 6 months now, and because of that, have found time to make progress on my sword, and reading (OTHER THINGS) hock: wow! Yes, I read!!! I also follow the market :!: now I probably am getting you confused, so I'll remind you, yes it is possible for a teen to be like this, just depends on who you mix with :roll:
sorry that had nothing to do with the thread, but I totally kicked a** in RTW :mad: BAM
Samuel J.
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P.S one kid survived on 3 bagels, and a small dish of fruit in a whole day while playing x-box for 11 consecutive hours... Btw, you're welcome to add to the views and comments on my sword threads 
Back to subject...I see, a battle field in Germany, one mile!!! That sounds extremely interesting! Have they found the lost eagle of one of the three legions when lost in Teotoberg Forest? I believe the commander was Arminius? Time of Augustus' rein, and he died shortly after the news was received about the annihilation of his three legions? I just wonder how far Rome could have expanded into Germania! I think they should have gone straight through Dacia and sandwiched Germania on two fronts! anyone think possible?
Samuel J.
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