Roman-Frisian shield pattern

[Maginhard]

Good day,


I am making educational drawings about the Frisian homelands and history around 300-600 AD. Now a have one plate with Frisian cavalry. I know that the Frisian had cavalry units that served the Romans.. and that they fought for them at the invasion and holding of Britannia.

And now, I am searching for a good shield pattern for these Frisians. Anybody has a good suggestion what a should use? Our maybe there is known a shield pattern that must have been used by them?

[garrelt]

See if you can find a "Frisian" shield pattern in the Notitia Dignitatum.

Which part of the Frisian homelands are you drawing?
Frisia was in the old days a bit bigger than now, it included, at least in Early Medieval times, parts of modern the Netherlands (coastline), northwest Germany and the west of Danish Jutland.
How big exactly it was between 300-600, I can't tell.
Looking forward to your drawings.

[Maginhard]

Thanks for teh reply.

The area: northern Netherlands and I prefe the Dutch state Noord-Holland/coastline Holland

I will take a look. If people have more suggestions and sources where I can look.. feel welcome to post!

Just started the concepting of the drawings.. So may take a while. I hope to get them on our future website (Frisian living history 300-600 AD).

By the way... speaking of Roman cavalry (and specific the Frisians), if people here on the forum have some good hints for me on my drawing, be welcome too! I can use all the detailed information because that is what I find importanty on the drawings.

Thnx!

[jho]

As far I am aware, the only Frisian units in the Notitia Dignitatum were limitanei for which no shield patterns are shown. Of course Frisians may have fought in units with more generic "Barbarian" names such as the equites Batavi (shield patterns here). But these have no obvious connection to Britain.

Archaeologically I believe that some Germanic shields have been found with traces of red or blue paint but no patterns. The only complete pattern I am aware of was found in Gommern, a red star on light blue ground. You can see a photo here). This meets your requirements time wise but has no obvious connection with Frisia.

For earlier periods you may go with one of the shield patterns on Trajan's column or do a google image search for "Frisiavonum" "Frisiorum" or "Numerus Hnaudifridi". This may turn up some inscriptions of British Frisian units of the Roman army and with a little luck one may have an ornament or similar you may want to use as an inspiration for a shield pattern.

[garrelt]

Thanks for teh reply.

The area: northern Netherlands and I prefe the Dutch state Noord-Holland/coastline Holland

Just started the concepting of the drawings.. So may take a while. I hope to get them on our future website (Frisian living history 300-600 AD).

From this I conclude that this is a Dutch project.

For a book about Roman era shields.
Romische schilde by Ansgar Nabbefeld

[agrimensor]

Maybe you can use the inspiration from the frisian provice flag (Friese vlag)white red and
blue.
succes from The Netherlands

[Maginhard]

Thnx for the replies guys, I love it

And yes to Garrelt, it is a Dutch project! I will consider to buy the book. But I hope get come out without buying. I must say that I prefer to spend the money on books about Germanic rather than Romans, hehe! But thanks for the tip!

I don't know if it would be very authentic to use the Frisian flag pattern? In my 'fantasy' these Frisian cavalrymen where just good trained soldiers but not Romans. And they were probably ronseled by the Romans because they needed men. And the Frisians probably didn't made the real numbers in the Roman armies. So my conclusion is a little bit that they where equiped with simple and basic Roman weaponry. So maybe they also just used a simple and general Roman shield? In that case I must like what Jens Horstkotte said about Roman round shields (I hope round shields are good for a Roman cavalryman?) that where just red or blue. And then I will choose red because that is mostly associated with Romans (eventhough that the red colour is not specially Roman)

Hope you like this.. otherwise, let me know!

[jvrjenivs]

I hope round shields are good for a Roman cavalryman?)

For 300 - 600 a round parma with a 45cm (or slightly smaller) diameter would do perfect for a cavalryman. Good luck with your drawings!

[garrelt]

I hope round shields are good for a Roman cavalryman?)

A Round shield is mostly a good choice for infantry or cavalry for our regions.
Mostly these shields appear to have been painted in a single color as seen in the remaining examples from North Germany/Denmark.

For 300 - 600 a round parma with a 45cm (or slightly smaller) diameter would do perfect for a cavalryman. Good luck with your drawings!

There are some descriptions known from Dutch archaeological sites where shield remains have been found, or due to their bad state were only documented.
The documented diameter range of round schields that I have found is between 50 and 75cm, all with central grips.
So a 45cm shield is possible.
The dating, according to the grave context(s), is between the 5th and 7th century.
As far as I know no "complete" shield has been excavated.
Because there are no metal rim remains or nails around the shield edge, like in North Germany/Denmark, these diameters were recorded by measuring the different color of the organic material against the color of the sand in the excavated layer.
I have not yet seen documentation of shields/shield remains from Groningen or (West)Friesland.
But then again I have not read every excavation report that has been published. :wink:

[Robert]

Ha, it would seem as "Justerland" has joined the forum. Very nice project, ambitious, but realistic. Multiperiod themepark! The Frisian flag with the pond lilly emblem is of no use, as the Frisians from Roman times are NOT the later or present day Frisians, who migrated in from Germany much later after the sea had somewhat subsided. The present Frisian stock is Prussian!

I would suppose Nordic and Celtic influenced geometric design would be much more appropriate here, keeping it simple.

If the Frisians joined the Roman army, the period you describe is very "end of empire" , by the way. From what I know, the Romans had given up on Britain by then and were pulling out. So how does connect in with the invasion of Britain.

[Robert Vermaat]

I very much like the Park of Justerland doing something with the Roman army during this period (even more because I was under the impressing that you were concentrating more on the periods before and afterwards, where Roman troops are concerned), but I'm afraid I think you are looking at the wrong troops.

At the time you are describing (300-600) the 'Frisians' would have been different from the Frisians during the first 2 centuries. Most if not all inhabitants of the northern Dutch coast would have been Germanic immigrants from Schleswich or beyond. Therefore, you could look for units with a Anglian, Saxon or Danish background. By the looks of it, these won't have been used as cavalry (not their preferred manner of fighting for the next centuries), so your quest for 'Frisian cavalry' probably refers to a 1st-2nd century unit. By 300 and later that sitauation would have changed a lot.

Saxons are known as 'Laeti'(settled groups of non-Romans under a treaty, either as federates but in this case more likely as a vanquisehd group) on the French coast (Saxones Baiocassenses ), and perhaps already in Britain.
I'm not aware of any Late Roman unit still bearing the name of 'Frisians', but I know of a late 4th cavalry unit called the Ala I saxonum, although that one is serving far far away in Phoenicia.

So I fear you either have to change the date of your drawing to c. 100 AD, or choose a different topic?

[Maginhard]

Thanks guys, I understand what you are saying.

However, just a note about the early Frisii and later Frisians.. it is dangerous to say that the later Frisians were all German immigrants.
As you were speaking of Justerland park, that is planned for 2014 Noord-Holland, they will tell the real story about the (West)Frisians. It is true that big parts of Frisia and Groningen became uninhabitable. However, at the coast of modern Noord-Holland, people stayed. That is known because of the foundings in the dunes that are also dated 4th, 5th and 6th century. Besides that it is not clear how far the Frisians had their influence and where the exact villages were (what about Drenthe and the Veluwe?).
So it is true that a large amount of people left during migration period, but not all Frisians left the land. During migration period, when the main parts of northern Holland were able to live again, is is true that probably a lot of Saxons came into the land and melted together with the local Frisians that were still living. That's because later the people who lived here were called Frisians again (which might say something about the influence and amount of Frisians that stayed during the great migration?)

Back on topic. Thanks for the replies, very helpfull. What about the Frisians who joined the Roman army and became cavalry at Hadrians wall. I recently heard somebody say that these Frisians have left traces up untill the leaving of England by the Romans? Is there something known about their equipment and maybe shield patterns?

[Robert Vermaat]

However, just a note about the early Frisii and later Frisians.. it is dangerous to say that the later Frisians were all German immigrants.

Germanic. It's a cultural designation, the Frisians before that were of course also Germanic.

It is true that big parts of Frisia and Groningen became uninhabitable. However, at the coast of modern Noord-Holland, people stayed. That is known because of the foundings in the dunes that are also dated 4th, 5th and 6th century. Besides that it is not clear how far the Frisians had their influence and where the exact villages were (what about Drenthe and the Veluwe?).

Again, cultural designation. So far I understand (but DO corect me if I'm wrong) that there is a cultural break in the the settlement patterns, suggesting not only a break in habitation, but even where there is no break there is a clear change in settlement patterns as well as material culture. Suggesting outside influence as well as movement. Of course there was habitation in Drenthe and the Veluwe, but we cant call that 'Frisian'.

So it is true that a large amount of people left during migration period, but not all Frisians left the land. During migration period, when the main parts of northern Holland were able to live again, is is true that probably a lot of Saxons came into the land and melted together with the local Frisians that were still living. That's because later the people who lived here were called Frisians again (which might say something about the influence and amount of Frisians that stayed during the great migration?)

We don't know what happened to the original Frisian population. Either they migrated or they became mixed with new groups (such as the Anglo-Saxons, but also others). That the name stayed on does not mean anything at all. There are a myriad of examples where names remained (or were reintroduced later) without any form of continuous habitation whatsoever. It's attractive to see continuation even where there is none, because it gives a group a tighter 'link' to the land. :-?

Back on topic. Thanks for the replies, very helpfull. What about the Frisians who joined the Roman army and became cavalry at Hadrians wall. I recently heard somebody say that these Frisians have left traces up untill the leaving of England by the Romans? Is there something known about their equipment and maybe shield patterns?

Equipment seems to have been standard Roman issue. As to their shield patters - alas no. ad:

[Maginhard]

Robert Vermaat wrote:

Again, cultural designation. So far I understand (but DO corect me if I'm wrong) that there is a cultural break in the the settlement patterns, suggesting not only a break in habitation, but even where there is no break there is a clear change in settlement patterns as well as material culture. Suggesting outside influence as well as movement. Of course there was habitation in Drenthe and the Veluwe, but we cant call that 'Frisian'.

Indeed, as I already tried to suggest, we don't know if the inhabitants of Drenthe and the Veluwe were Frisians. But living so close to the Frisians we can speculate about this. What we do know for sure is that the villages at Noord-Holland (the old dunes) were Frisian settlements and they stayed inhabitated by Frisians during migration period, and that is something very intresting what a lot of people seem to forget (this is also a foretaste of upcomming Justerland by the way).
In this area, as far as I know, there is no clear break in settlement patterns and foundings. The fact that later in period these clear differences between old and new 'patterns' can propbably be explained by the new immigrants who became very dominant in the new Frisian culture.

Robert Vermaat wrote:

We don't know what happened to the original Frisian population. Either they migrated or they became mixed with new groups (such as the Anglo-Saxons, but also others). That the name stayed on does not mean anything at all. There are a myriad of examples where names remained (or were reintroduced later) without any form of continuous habitation whatsoever. It's attractive to see continuation even where there is none, because it gives a group a tighter 'link' to the land.

Can be true. But why should we shut out these links when they are there to discover again. I find it to easy to suggest that it is coincidence when there are clear links that might consider more research, which is just the intresting part of this history. Notwithstanding the fact that it indeed might be just a simple coinsidence afcourse..