Marching Camps

[AureliusFalco]

I was reading a"The Roman Empire" by Colin Wells. In particular I was reading about Septimius Severus' marching camps in southern Scotland. He says that through aerial photography, camps have been identified up the east coast of Scotland almost to the Moray Firth. Now I know that camps are visible from the air, but is there really a way to identify from what time period they come from? Can you tell from the air that a camp is Severus' Campaign and not, say, Agricola's? I'm not trying to be funny, I'm just curious if there are any tell-tale signs.
Thanks!!

[mcbishop]

I was reading a"The Roman Empire" by Colin Wells. In particular I was reading about Septimius Severus' marching camps in southern Scotland. He says that through aerial photography, camps have been identified up the east coast of Scotland almost to the Moray Firth. Now I know that camps are visible from the air, but is there really a way to identify from what time period they come from? Can you tell from the air that a camp is Severus' Campaign and not, say, Agricola's? I'm not trying to be funny, I'm just curious if there are any tell-tale signs.
Thanks!!

No-one has picked this up so I'll give you a quick reply. There are two strands to this. One is that major camps in Scotland tend to fall into various size series, some of which are suggested as Flavian, others as Severan/Caracallan. So there are a 25ha, 48ha, and 66ha series that are thought to be Severan, with a kick-off point of 66ha at Newstead in the Scottish Borders. The second is that dating evidence tends to be sparse to rare from such sites, so what little there is has to be cross-correlated between sites and camp series. A coin here, sherd of pottery there, all go to support the theories as to which camps are Flavian and which Severan.

There are also things peculiar to camp design, such as clavicula gateways, which are generally thought to be Flavian, so camp series featuring these don't belong to the Severan campaigns.

So, yes, you can identify camps from the air where you can see a large proportion of any individual site (and that doesn't always happen; you might just see a corner), and work out the area, or where you can distinguish a characteristic feature.

Mike Bishop

[AureliusFalco]

Thank you so much!! I didn't know that that clavicula gateway were only supposed to be flavian. I appreciate it!

[D B Campbell]

Just to clarify -- the clavicula-gated camps in Scotland are thought to be Flavian because the last known example of this distinctive feature is in the Hadrianic "North Camp" at Nahal Hever (Israel). And, as we all know, there was no Trajanic-Hadrianic campaigning in Scotland ... :wink:

[Simplex]

There are also things peculiar to camp design, such as clavicula gateways, which are generally thought to be Flavian, so camp series featuring these don't belong to the Severan campaigns.

Hi Mike Bishop,
....excuse me for jumping in here (and quite late so ...) ....
...while I have no problems asuming your statement as fully valid when it comes to Roman camps in Britain/Scotland/Wales I would not subscribe to that for continental roman camps.
There are at least 3 exceptions to that rule that I know of,-- all of them more or less firmly dated to Augustean times:
1) Neuss/Novaesium "Camp A" (the other subsequent camps here, named b-f, -- there are different nominations for the different "configurations" of camps visible in this place,
seem not to have used that.)
2) Haltern "Ostlager" (The other camps in that place also do not have that)
3) Rüthen-Kneblinghausen ( Two different "configurations" were found here, traditionally referenced to Domitian times for the use of the "clavicula" ---
forgive me, but but in THAT case I could find no further reference, except that the excavations from 2008 still put more riddles into that affair -- a lot of germanic findings, especially pottery, nearly no roman finds and not a trace of an earth-n-wood rampart behind the trench as stated in earlier papers )
For reference online :
http://www.roemische-garnison-novaesium....ktion.html (Sorry, in German only)
for all 3 examples.
2) and 3) are further referenced to in
Rudolf Aßkamp, Aufmarsch an der Lippe - Römische Militärlager im rechtsrheinischen Germanien from: 2000 Jahre Varusschlacht -- Imperium (>>pp 172-179, especially pics 1 and 2; Ostlager: p179. Kneblinghausen here is on the pics as augustean.(Sorry: In German only)
It seems that 1) and 2) have neither been marching camps nor multi-period "steady" camps.
Referring to the trouble dating Kneblinghausen:
http://www.archaeologie-online.de/magazi...haft-2706/
(Sorry, also in German)
I'd be glad someone came up with additional informations.
(Haven't found more references yet, my misspellings are adding up, I'd better go to sleep :roll: )
Greez

Simplex

[Nathan Ross]

major camps in Scotland tend to fall into various size series, some of which are suggested as Flavian, others as Severan/Caracallan.

Has anyone suggested a post-Severan date for any of the camps in Scotland? Presumably the campaigns of Constantius, Constantine and Theodosius must have involved camp construction? Is there any evidence for older sites being reused at a later date?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

It was suggested quite a few times from what I have read.

[D B Campbell]

There are at least 3 exceptions to that rule that I know of,-- all of them more or less firmly dated to Augustan times.

We can add Camp C at Alesia, clearly dating to 52 BC. (But there are no Caesarian camps in Scotland! :wink: )

[mcbishop]

....excuse me for jumping in here (and quite late so ...) ....
...while I have no problems asuming your statement as fully valid when it comes to Roman camps in Britain/Scotland/Wales I would not subscribe to that for continental roman camps.

I very carefully didn't say I thought they were Flavian, just that it was generally thought so ;-) All of these narrative structures, which Romano-British scholars so love, tend to be a bit shaky IMNSHO.

Mike Bishop

[Simplex]

Sorry,
I wasn't in for a bit of "shin-kicking" , I just wanted to clarify things to more than one person (sorry if I "misaligned" my roster of words for this :oops: ...), in fact it seems that the ruling opinion of "our younger days" is right in the process of being re-aligned.

I very carefully didn't say I thought they were Flavian, just that it was generally thought so All of these narrative structures, which Romano-British scholars so love, tend to be a bit shaky IMNSHO

I should have taken more care on exactly placing my arguments in respect to yours. :oops:
BTW: I faintly remember more of "earlier" camps with clavicula and titula, but since I got more than one hobby, my files get somewhat disrupted from time to time making it hard to come up with the right references/sources when in need. :roll:
For now

Simplex

BTW, Mike Bishop has been cited in a German book again (and so twice) 8) :
Alexander Reis -- NIDA-HEDDERNHEIM im 3 Jhd. n. Chr.
Studien zum Ende der Siedlung, Frankfurt 2010
[Alexander Reis -- NIDDA-HEDDERNHEIM in the 3rd Century AD
Studies on the End Of Settlement, Frankfurt 2010]

[mcbishop]

I should have taken more care on exactly placing my arguments in respect to yours. :oops:

Don't worry, I don't expect you to resign (unlike everybody in Britain busy resigning at the moment!).

BTW, Mike Bishop has been cited in a German book again (and so twice) 8) :
Alexander Reis -- NIDA-HEDDERNHEIM im 3 Jhd. n. Chr.
Studien zum Ende der Siedlung, Frankfurt 2010
[Alexander Reis -- NIDDA-HEDDERNHEIM in the 3rd Century AD
Studies on the End Of Settlement, Frankfurt 2010]

Gosh, what am I supposed to have done now?!

Mike Bishop

[Simplex]

Gosh, what am I supposed to have done now?!

.....maybe a case of "Curse Of Good Deeds" as we say over here. :mrgreen:

Greez

Simplex

[PhilusEstilius]

There are two camps near Hadrian's Wall but they do pre-date the wall and are associated with the earlier Stanegate which runs from west coast to east coast these have both Clavicula and Tutulus gateways.
The extra defence was used at a vulnerable point known as the Tipalt Burn, these are the Glenwhelt Leezes and the Chapel Rigg camps just west from the Roman fort of Magna (Carvoran)

[AureliusFalco]

I have another question. Is there anyway to tell marching camps from a more permanent earthwork camp? I would understand if you were excavating it, you would find more evidence of more permanent structures, but I was wondering if there was any way from the air to tell the difference.

[D B Campbell]

I was wondering if there was any way from the air to tell the difference.

The general morphology gives it away. Usually, marching camps :
(1) are much bigger
(2) are delimited by a single ditch
(3) have no gate structures -- only a gap in the ditch -- but may have associated gate protection (titulus, clavicula, or similar)
(4) appear to be empty -- under optimum conditions, the lines of rubbish pits and field ovens may appear from the air, but none of the linear features which would be expected in a fort