Roman army friezes - can you help?

[benryder]

Dear all

i am currently making a TV history documentary for channel 4 which touches on the Roman invasion of Britain. we are on the lookout for a frieze (perhaps on a sarcophagus) or sculpture or mosaic that we can film, to help tell the story of the Romans invading. We are particularly keen to find a frieze that depicts the invasion in Britain, although other suggestions are very welcome.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give!

ben

[Crispvs]

Hello Ben - welcome to RAT.

Unfortunately I think you will be disappointed in your quest. The first century AD is a bit early for carved Roman sarcophogai and such a subject would be rather too complicated for a mosaic. Even the well known and very detailed Alexander mosaic from Pompeii only shows a single image, and not one in any way connected to the invasion of Britain. I don't now of any narrative friezes prior to Trajan's Column either. Neither do any surviving frescoes show such a subject unfortunately. Your best bet is either coin images or the well known statue of Claudius subduing a personification of Britannia.

If you definitely needed some sort of narrative illustration your best bet might be contacting a well informed illustrator who specialises in the period such as Graham Sumner (who post here on RAT) or Peter Connolly.

Sorry not to be able to come up with exactly what you were after but it might still provide you with a starting point. Unfortunately the ancients did not always think to cater to modern audiences, much as we might like them to have done. :wink:

Another way might be to ask a re-enactment group to help you out with filming a sequence of some sort, but if you are considering this, PLEASE remember that most re-enactors have day jobs during the week so cannot do weekday filming at short notice. Also bear in mind that it is both polite and fair to financially re-emburse people for their time, especially when they have provided their own accurate clothing and equipment. Sorry to mention that last issue but unfortunately a number of us have been badly ripped off by television companies in the past.

Crispvs

[benryder]

Crispvs

Thanks so much for getting back to me so quickly, I'll investigate the Claudius statue now...

In terms of later friezes that show a Roman army invading anywhere (doesnt have to be Britain), can you think of any good ones apart from the Trajan column? A few good close up shots of people who are obviously soldiers would be great if we intercut that with the Claudius statue.

Thanks again

ben

[Medicus matt]

Ben, how about one of the 'Battle scene' sarcophagi instead?:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sarcop...assimo.jpg

http://faculty.cua.edu/pennington/church...phagus.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_..._scene.jpg

Dramatic, action packed and ever so slightly oversensationalised....should do the job nicely. :wink:

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Ben
My website is now up and running
gsillustrator.co.uk

If I can help you out in any way I will try my best.

As Paul (aka Crispus) says, apart from the statue of Claudius, some coins and a fragmentary inscription of the possible victory monument, anything else that may have related to the conquest of Britain from Roman times has been lost.

Most publications and TV documentaries therefore tend to rely on the familar scenes from Trajan's column and or re-enactors. However a thank you to him for remembering that there are illustrators too!

To make a change from Trajan's Column, you could use the Column of Marcus Aurelius instead.

Graham.

[benryder]

Thanks for all this.

Do there exist any Roman wall paintings that have images of soldiers.

Alternatively, Graham, have you ever produced anything in that style?

Very best

ben

[Crispvs]

Hmmm, unfortunately apart from the well know examples, that sort of thing is just not that common in Roman art. There is the column of Marcus Aurelius but that is highly derivative of Trajan's Column. The fragments from the later columns of Arcadius and Theodosius are much too late. Mind you, Trajan's Column is also too late really, having been built seventy years or more after the invasion of Britain, by which time the appearance of soldiers had changed a great deal. Mind you, Trajan's Column is about as close as you would get in time the the AD43 invasion date, simply because there is no earlier example of a narrative frieze. There are a number of other sculpture which might be useful to you though. The Adamklissi metopes are contemporary with Trajan's Column but are probably more honest in their portrayal of soldiers (and more naive in their execution as well). Closer to the time of the invasion itself are the Rhineland stelae, which are funerary monuments, many of which show an image of the deceased soldier, sometimes wearing his armour and sometimes not and very rarely depicted with their helmets on. Several good examples have been found in Britain, with there being two in the Colchester Castle museum, one in the Museum of London, one in Gloucester, one in the Museum of Antiquities in Newcastle upon Tyne and rather a lot of good examples in the Grosvenor Museum in Chester, although many of the stone in the Grosvenor would be rather too late for your purpose.

As an afterthought, DO NOT buy or borrow items claiming to be reproductions of Roman equipment from museum shops. The museums themselves are often first class but the items sold in their shops are simply there to raise money and little or no attention is paid to the accuracy of such items by the people who act as buyers for such shops. Unfortunately far too many items of such tat have ended up being shown on Channel 4 documentaries in the past for me to ignore them here.

I hope this helps some more.

Crispvs

[Crispvs]

Hmmm - I started writing my reply before Matt posted. It just shows how slow my computer is sometimes. :evil:

[Graham Sumner]

Hello Ben


Do there exist any Roman wall paintings that have images of soldiers.

Alternatively, Graham, have you ever produced anything in that style?


Yes there are. I have listed all I could find in my Book 'Roman Military Dress', which tried to include all available evidence for Roman military clothing colour, one of the most popular topics here on RAT!

The painting in my avatar, also in my website is based on an existing Roman portrait of a possible soldier, which is now in the Manchester museum. He dates to the Antonine period however. However there are at least twenty surviving portraits painted on wax found in Egypt which might show soldiers and some that might even be contemporary to the invasion of Britain. They would make a colourful alternative to the now bare stone monuments generally used to illustrate Roman scenes.

As Paul said there are also a number of tombstones dating to the Claudian period. Some of them have also been the basis for a few of my illustrations.

Best wishes.

Graham.

[benryder]

Great thanks all.

[Renatus]

The most apposite reliefs might be the cavalry tombstones showing the deceased riding down a barbarian. Those in Britain nearest to the invasion would be Longinus Sdapeze at Colchester, Rufus Sita at Gloucester, and Dannicus and Valerius Genialis at Cirencester.

[Caratacus]

As has been said, the period you are interested in (AD 43?) is pretty sparse in terms of Roman artistic depiction. There is one thing, however, that has not been mentioned. The so-called "Temple frieze of Dimitrius Ahenobarbus" in the Louvre Museum, Paris, shows what is thought to be an enlistment parade, where recruits are being recorded for military service. There are at least two soldiers, together with a cavalryman and an officer (who is sometimes interpreted as being the god Mars). The frieze has been dated to the 1st century BC - so earlier than your period but about the same distance in time before as Trajan's column is afterwards.

As to whether the museum authorities would be willing to let you photograph it .... try thrusting money into their hands, they are French, after all.

Mike Thomas
(Caratacus)