Classicists and Intelligence Services

[Jona Lendering]

Ancient historians and classicists are unique among scholars because they are trained to cope with insufficient and contradictory information. They are always thinking about unknown unknowns. For this reason, I believe, they are overrepresented as employees of intelligence services: Michael Ventris, B.M.W. Knox, N.G.L. Hammond, and T.E. Lawrence are examples. Does anyone know other names?

[Simplex]

...I don't know whether they "fit the bill" perfectly
1. Graf Laszlo Almasy -- the original "English Patient"
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Alm%C3%A1sy
Couldn't find an english website "on the quick" that covers all his "faucets".
2. Max von Oppenheimer , the man (not only) behind the excavationsn at Tell-Halaf
(and elsewhere but not-so-prominent sites, it seems)
By main profession german diplomat. No secret agent as such, but "agens in rebus" nevertheless. This man gave his last shirt to archeology. This year being paid the long
overdue respect on occasion of an exhibition at Berlin. There was a TV Special about him during that time on German ZDF
A doctorate thesis on the Tell-Halaf-Museum:
http://www.diss.fu-berlin.de/diss/receiv...0000002643
3. The relatively unknown "Deutsch-Türkische Denkmalschutztruppe" and the "Bavarian Flying Corps" as part of the German Asian Expedition Corps". This also was a part of the "Operation Pascha", the German support of the Turks during WW 1.
Mentioned here:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsch-T%C...tzkommando
There was an exhibition about that Bavarian Flyers, IIRC it has become a "permanent" at
Oberschleissheim/Bavaria.
Unfortunately all these links are in German as I could not find sensible material on it in other languages.:roll: I'd be glad if somebody could help me out there.

Greez

Simplex

The link-button still's trying to play tricks on me.:mrgreen:

[Jona Lendering]

Thanks Siggi

(I received your p.m., BTW, but haven't found time to answer)

[john roberts]

It's just that we're smarter than other people.

[Jona Lendering]

It's just that we're smarter than other people.

Unfortunately, one quick look at no matter which academic journal is sufficient to prove the opposite. What I do think is that classicists and ancient historians are used to working with insufficient data. Donald Rumsfeld's famous words about unknown unknowns are in fact a rephrasing of the principle testis unus, testis nullus.

[Forty-One]

nvm...

[john roberts]

Ex pede herculem?

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

Curiously enough when I got my degree in Anthropology, having been in the Army I was considered to have "Fascist" leanings, and was obviously not part of the "Revolution",then popular with students, and not to be trusted. When I became a police officer, I was considered to have questionalbe loyalty because I had studied Anthroplogy,(Archaeology), and not to be trusted. I wound up working in Intel anyway, which was a lot of fun. There is no difference between a crime scene and an archaeological site). When you look a criminal activities as a sub-cultural system, (systems theory approach) you can normalize data, in practice, and do predictive modeling of behavior. I signed a non-diclosure statement, of course. I will tell you I will not vote ever again for anyone after what I learned, and strongly believe in things that are not PC and would get me banned from RAT in a heatbeat, no mattter how true they are. None of theis matters, but I know things you don't. In the end the joke will be on the PC bunch.

Ralph
(with no apoligies)

[Jona Lendering]

When you look a criminal activities as a sub-cultural system, (systems theory approach) you can normalize data, in practice, and do predictive modeling of behavior.

That's quite an interesting parallel - and what the humanities are (or should be) about.

[mcbishop]

Ancient historians and classicists are unique among scholars because they are trained to cope with insufficient and contradictory information. They are always thinking about unknown unknowns. For this reason, I believe, they are overrepresented as employees of intelligence services: Michael Ventris, B.M.W. Knox, N.G.L. Hammond, and T.E. Lawrence are examples. Does anyone know other names?

This is quite pertinent, although it does not mention J. K. St Joseph's work in air photo interpretation. First chance he got in 1945 he wangled himself an Avro Anson and took off on that famous flight into Scotland tracing Roman remains. Just as keen was his pilot, Derrick Riley, who also became a leading light in archaeological air photography after the war. Derrick, a Mosquito pilot, once told me how, when training multi-engine pilots on Lancasters, he used to make them turn tight circles so he could look at cropmarks (good practice for the trainees and good for him :-) ).

Mike Bishop

[M. Demetrius]

when training multi-engine pilots on Lancasters, he used to make them turn tight circles so he could look at cropmarks

Hmm. A new meaning to the term "crop circles"? 8) :lol:

[Praefectusclassis]

Isn't Eric Birley supposed to have used his experience in deducting the German order of battle as an intelligence officer in WW2 to decipher the Roman one?

[mcbishop]

Isn't Eric Birley supposed to have used his experience in deducting the German order of battle as an intelligence officer in WW2 to decipher the Roman one?

It is often said that that was the case but I suspect that EB's initial interest in the Roman army in the '30s led him on to the Wehrmacht when the need arose (armies are armies, after all, and he was well acquainted with Germany). Whilst he was in military intelligence, Richmond meanwhile was serving with the Home Guard (I once found his drill notes amongst the Corbridge records)!

Mike Bishop

[Sean Manning]

Ancient historians and classicists are unique among scholars because they are trained to cope with insufficient and contradictory information. They are always thinking about unknown unknowns.

I'm not sure if that's unique to classicists: social scientists and economists have the same problem if they are competent. Being polyglot helps in both fields. I can't think of any other trade than classicism where professionals are expected to be able to read and write five languages.

[Jona Lendering]

social scientists and economists have the same problem if they are competent.

... if they are competent... I could not help but smile, but of course you are right.