Mail

[Caballo]

I thought this was very useful- from http://legvi.tripod.com/cohorsiitalica/id27.html


But having gone back to Robinson and other sources, I find I'm still confused. The 4 in one pattern rivetted seems a standard. But I haven't found clarity as to whether the Romans used rings and punched flats, all flats or some other combination.

Could someone help ?

Mail-What to look for when buying

Mail was by far the most widely used form of body protection during the Roman Republican and Imperial Period. Modern reproduced mail comes in several types, and styles. Many look good, but the question is, how do I get something that I know is not a piece of junk? What is period and what is not period. What am I getting?

The first thing to look at is the pattern and ring combinations. The pattern should be 4 in 1; it is also the most common pattern in reproduced mail. Ring Types; is it butted, flat rings riveted, round rings riveted, butted with stamped rings, flat riveted rings with stamped rings, or round riveted rings with flat stamped rings.

Almost all re enactment Legions accept all of these patterns, but always check before purchasing to be safe. The pattern the Romans used was a 4 in one pattern with alternating solid flat rings, and round riveted rings. This is not to say that they may have used all butted rings or all riveted rings, but the archaeological evidence has yet to be discovered. The rivets appear to have been round rivet heads, although this does not count out the fact that wedge rivets, used in the Middle Ages may have also been used.

Ring size seems to have varied greatly from as small as having a Internal Diameter (ID) of 5mm to as large as a ID 12.5mm according to Arne Jouttijarvi who has studied Roman mail extensively. There are also variations in ring thickness from as thin as .8 to 1.7mm.

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/an...%e4rvi.pdf

Mail was employed as a form of protection for nearly 2000 years, yet there are very few surviving samples from the entire time, let alone from the Roman Period. Roman Mail was made hand, and it would be reasonable to speculate that rings sizes of both smaller and larger sizes would/could have been used.

Butted flat mail is by far the most common form of reproduced mail on the market, and the most affordable. For re-enactment purposes, it serves well, although it has few disadvantages. In butted mail, the rings are closed together, but they are not riveted or welded shut, thus the chance that could separate or tear upon receiving a sizable blow is increased. Butted mail is also heavier, since the rings have to be thicker to prevent from occurring.

Riveted flat ring mail is the next most common form of mail and widely used in the SCA community and European Martial Arts groups. It is more expensive than mail butted mail and little bit over round riveted mail. Its two huge advantages is that flat rings are thinner because they are flattened, require less rings in the armor, greatly degreasing the weight. As an example, my all mail butted lorica hamata, with rings ID 8mm rings weighs about 26 pounds, while my all flat ring riveted lorica hamata weighs at just over twelve pounds with rings of a ID of 9mm.

Riveted round ring mail has the advantage of being a little bit cheaper than all flat ringed riveted mail, and does still less than butted mail.
Roman Pattern mail is finally available at a reasonable price. Find IT Armory sells both a 8mm ID and 6mm ID lorica hamata listed as the Ferrata Hamata. Deepeeka and other companies are also currently planning to sell correct pattern and sizes shirts. A good Roman Pattern lorica hamata should weigh as little as ten pounds to no more than fifteen pounds. The Mail Doubler, will add about an extra five pounds.

Mail with larger rings also decreases the weight. Riveted mail has the advantage of strength of its links due to the riveting process, which allows for the use of thinner wire/links. Riveted mail should have a thickness of 1/32nd of an inch (.79mm) or greater to be considered combat worthy and to SCA standards. Forth Armory did an experiment where a all flat ringed mal shirt was subjected to a couple of full swing blows from a hand and half sword. The rings did not break, nor did the rivets pop!

http://www.forth-armoury.com/photo_galle...damage.htm

I did some experimentation myself, and gave a few 100%, full power swings on some of my mail trimmings with a twenty five inch long sharped sword bayonet, like done by Forth Armory on my flat ring mail shirt that has a ID of 9mm, OD of 11-12mm, with a .85-.9mm thickness. The rings only bent very slightly. I also attempted to pierce the mail, and was unsuccessful though I am not sure I had my full mass behind it.

When looking to purchase mail, the basic things to look for are ID and OD ring size, ring thickness, wire type, metal type, and over all weight of the shirt. The mail should be advertised as fitting between a 48-50 inch chest, with a length of 27-30 inches. And weigh no more than 28 pounds. If the retailer does not have all of that information posted, ask. IF he can not answer those questions, best to stay a way since in my mind it would question the quality of the product and the how much the retailer knows about his products. Once you receive your mail, you may need to trim the sleeves a bit as well as the main body to make it fit properly, which can be done easily with a pair of wire cutters. Besides a proper fit, it will also reduce the weight of the mail.

Personally, when I look at a piece of mail, I am shopping for a piece with a ID of 6-10mm and a OD of no more than 12mm, made of spring steel, with a thickness of 1/32nd of an inch (.79mm) or greater and weighing less than 28 pounds.

[Medicus matt]

A combination of round wire rivetted (with round headed rivets) and stamped solid seems to be norm in the late period shirts I've had a good look at (the Vimose and Thorsbjerg shirts). Don't know about earlier. I know that you find some butted rings in earlier shirts (eg Carlingwark Loch)as replacements for rivetted rings.
I do remember reading about a 6-1 pattern shirt, but think it was pre-Roman.

[martijn.wijnhoven]

I do remember reading about a 6-1 pattern shirt, but think it was pre-Roman.

This is the Thiefenau find and it is indeed pre-Roman.

See:
http://erikds.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8&...23759a0f7b

Cheers,

Martijn