Red tunics revisited

[mcbishop]

I remain strictly neutral on the topic, but new research may be relevant to this old chestnut. Make of it what you will ;-)

Mike Bishop

[Graham Sumner]

I am sure a study like this has been done before, perhaps many times. There has also been mention of the association of women and the colour red too, the scarlet woman, the scarlet letter, For those old enough to remember Bette Davis in her red ball gown (Jezebel, 1938) etc...

Graham.

[Rubus]

It's interesting indeed but has little relevance to the question if Roman legionaries wore (uniform) red tunics.

We know that marines wore blue tunics. But I would be surprised if they wore them because of characteristics like harmony, coldness or sadness which are associated with the colour blue ...

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I thought marines wearing blue/green tunics was still only a theory?

[Walhaz]

I agree, it's interesting, but the idea that modern perceptions of color attributes would apply to ancient civilizations is a little dubious. It's entirely possible (or likely) that ancients perceived entirely different things from colors than we do today. Maybe to the Romans instead of red it was sky-blue that made men look angry, for instance.

Or maybe it's because of the pervasive view of Roman legions clad in red tunics with red shields and red plumes that when we see red we think the wearer is angry. Cause versus effect, in essence.

Mostly though, I think that modern ideations of perception, value judgments, and other psychologically-related norms should be treated very carefully rather than simply assuming that modern mental constructs apply to populations that experienced very, very few of the factors that have led to those modern mental constructs.

[mcbishop]

As I understand it, it is not a cultural phenomenon but a physiological one, relating to the frequency of light in the red part of the spectrum and the reaction of the human brain to that. In that case, it makes no difference whether it's Romans or us, the effect is the same. :evil:

Mike Bishop

[Flavivs Aetivs]

I always thought it was red and yellow that made people hungry? :?

[Walhaz]

I see, the physiological aspects were not indicated in the article, merely that males tended to see men who wore red as angry, while females did not.

Although the fact that the females in the study did not receive the same impression as the males would indicate that either the perception is not based on physiology, or that there is a distinct difference in the male and female physiology connecting the eye to the brain.

[mcbishop]

I see, the physiological aspects were not indicated in the article

Well, it is here:

Wearing red can even change your physiology and balance of hormones and alter your performance in a football match.

Mike Bishop

[XorX]

I always thought it was red and yellow that made people hungry? :?

so, is THAT the reason for the invention of gold / garnet-cloisonnee? :twisted:

edit: that "twisted"-icon makes me hungry... I`ll have a beer now

[AMELIANVS]

We know that marines wore blue tunics. But I would be surprised if they wore them because of characteristics like harmony, coldness or sadness which are associated with the colour blue ...

We don't really know it.Entire idea is mainly based on short passage in late 4th early 5th century Vegetius who only mentioned that Roman marines serving at Britain were using speciffic shade of blue on their service dress as well as on Ships and its canvas as a kind of camouflage.But Vegetius is not anyhow clearly saying if this was just speciality for marines serving in Britain only or if it was normal general practice used also at other Roman navy soldiers.We had some other evidence that Romans indeed considered blue color as the color symbolizing water and marines but nothing which would explicitely say us-Roman marines wore blue tunics(except British marines in uncertain period in time if Vegetius is correct).And as was already said they wore such color mainly as a form of camouflage so they would certainly not be interrested in some sadness feelings associated with,practical reason was the reason for its use.It was also already said that Romans were not viewing color symbolism necessarily always the same way as we do now.For example black had basically the same association for the ancient Romans like for us in modern times but for example pink was definitely not viewed by the Romans as a girly color unworthy of hard men or soldiers.

[Rubus]

We know that marines wore blue tunics. But I would be surprised if they wore them because of characteristics like harmony, coldness or sadness which are associated with the colour blue ...

We don't really know it.Entire idea is mainly based on short passage in late 4th early 5th century Vegetius who only mentioned that Roman marines serving at Britain were using speciffic shade of blue on their service dress as well as on Ships and its canvas as a kind of camouflage.But Vegetius is not anyhow clearly saying if this was just speciality for marines serving in Britain only or if it was normal general practice used also at other Roman navy soldiers.

I didn't want to imply (and don't believe) there was a uniform blue for Roman marines at all times just that we know of marines who wore blue Seems to be a bit misleading now that I read it again.

[Alexand96]

I was always under the impression that the association of the legions with the god Mars had something to do with our belief that red was heavily present amongst the legions. Now that I'm thinking about it, I'm not really sure where the association with Mars and the color red even comes from, aside from the obvious association of the god of war with the color of blood. Am I completely off-base here?

[Vindex]

So if marines wearing blue fought marines wearing red...does that mean survivors were marooned? :woot:

[Graham Sumner]

"I'm not really sure where the association with Mars and the color red even comes from"

Images of both Mars and Roma show them wearing red tunics.

Graham.