Roman Body Armour by H & J Travis

[Magnus]

Meh, I think I'll be avoiding this book, from what I've read here. Thanks for the discussion so far!

[mcbishop]

Meh, I think I'll be avoiding this book, from what I've read here. Thanks for the discussion so far!

Which is exactly why I dislike reviews (academic or otherwise) so intensely. If you are serious about studying, displaying, or talking about Roman armour then you need to read this book. You may not agree with everything (or even anything!) in it, but then I don't agree with a lot of what is in Lindenschmit, Couissin, or Robinson, but this is how the academic process works. Knowledge builds upon knowledge. Dismissing a book just because others don't like it, are lukewarm about it, worry about wrist bracers, dislike the number of typos etc etc is not to allow your mind to be broadened. Roman children were taught to argue both sides of a case (typical lawyers...) so you need to be familiar with all sides of the interpretation of the evidence. For example: we don't know how girth hoops were fastened on Kalkriese segmentata - I offered one explanation in LS1, the Travises, having built a cuirass, offered another; we don't know who is right (well, I do ;-) ) but if a member of Joe Public wanders up to you at an event, sees you in all your kit and assumes you know what you're talking about, and then proceeds to ask you how girth hoops on Kalkriese segmentata were fastened (and there will always be some little b*gg*r who will), are you in a position to give both sides of the argument? At too many re-enactment events I have been to I wince when I hear things stated as categorical fact when what is actually being offered is supposition or factoid. It may be inconvenient that we do not have nice pat answers to everything, but that is the way of things in archaeology and ancient history (both of which disciplines nuzzle each other uncomfortably in the sack of re-enactment).

End of rant. hock: Now buy/beg/borrow (but don't steal) the book, read it, and then by all means disagree with it, but if you are a re-enactor who wears mail/scale/segmentata and expect to be asked questions by those who are not so knowledgeable, that is the very least you can do.

And don't get me started on book designers. Did I ever tell you about the colour plate section in B&C1?.... :roll:

Mike Bishop
(who still thinks a preview button is essential)

[Kai]

Mike, I would not regard a review as guide for your shopping list anyway. Book discussion is probably the more precise choice of words of what a good review is imo. As much as a speech can be discussed, a book can be discussed. At the very least a reviewer should highlight the possibilities of future discussions caused by the presented research, if not beginning them right away, making clear in what way this book enriches, influences or discredits current researches. Should the book be influential but in the wrong ways, one needs to highlight why that is. Still it has its worth.

As a simple rule of thumb - if it is not worth reading, it is not worth reviewing. After all the critic Graham e.g. has given, he still left me with the impression it is a book worth reading. :-)

However buying is a different problem altogether...

[Caballo]

At too many re-enactment events I have been to I wince when I hear things stated as categorical fact when what is actually being offered is supposition or factoid.

I love the idea of Mike B lurking round the re-enactors campfires...if we see you, are we still able to challenge you with the words "You are Mike Bishop and I claim my copy of Lorica Segmentata Volume 1?"

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobby_Lud)

[Graham Sumner]

If you are serious about studying, displaying, or talking about Roman armour then you need to read this book.

With the emphasis on read! It will also be of interest to compare with Sim and Kaminski Roman Imperial Armour due out soon.

Graham.

[Dan Howard]

It is certainly worth reading. A decent review will help me decide whether I should buy it for my colection or just borrow it from the library. Of course I could borrow it before deciding to buy it but I'd be surprised if it showed up in any libraries I have access to any time soon. If it is worth a spot on my bookshelf then I'd reserve some of my book budget for a personal copy.

[Magnus]

Well, there is good news Mike! I'm not studying, displaying or talking about roman armour. All i need to know is how to make it, and that information is already available.

While i understand your point of view, for my purposes, such a book is pointless. 95% of the events i attend are actual reenactments, vs dog and pony shows, and are away from the public eye.

[Matthew Amt]

95% of the events i attend are actual reenactments, vs dog and pony shows, and are away from the public eye.

Um... We'll fight about definitions (and probably unintentional slights) elsewhere, I guess...

Matthew

[Virilis]

Hold your horses, guys!

I think everyone who are interested in roman armour, should at least read this book. I had the impression before that we already had all the relevant info available how to make accurate roman armour but maybe that isn't so simple. Of course I would have a different opinion if I had made a Lorica Segmentata based on info which is now challenced. Welcome to the world of scientific thinking where there are no final truths ...

[Magnus]

There is no debate....either you get dressed up for the benefit of the public, or you take more of a living history approach to an event. But i sure wouldnt call standing around talking to people reenacting...if you take offense to the dog and pony show remark, it wasnt meant to be derogatory, thats just what i call them.

And this book isnt a *must* for a person's collection by any means. The information to accurately build roman armour is already there. If *you* so desire it to further your debate gas tank, fill'er up. But this book, as i stated earlier, for me personally is one I'll be avoiding. I am grateful for product reviews...their value goes without question. And while books can be subjective based on the reader, enough reviews can help a prospective reader make a good vs not-so-good investment.

[jvrjenivs]

But i sure wouldnt call standing around talking to people reenacting..

Well, I think that's exactly the debate Matt is reffering too. At least in Europe you're defintion of 'reenactment' would be more appropriate for "LARP".

Although I always find it hard to have a defined line between LARP (and then I'm just taking historical LARP into acount), reenactment and Living history.

[Magnus]

I hear ya...Lafe IMO would certainly be more of a LARP type of event, especially at certain points in it. Though the LARP aspect has grown at Lafe over the last few years that I've been. We host a few events up here in Canada that would be more living history styled I guess...more training and soldierly duties than scenario based reenacting.

Are many events in Europe LARP style, or mostly display type events? Or is there opportunity to do both?

Sorry for the thread hijack...

[jvrjenivs]

Are many events in Europe LARP style, or mostly display type events? Or is there opportunity to do both?

Well, you have both "LARP" events, which are scenario plays with also fantasy figures, historical LARP events, where the story is based on 'facts' and the costumes are more or less 'historical'. Next most people in Europe that take part in 'Roman re-enactment' do mainly or just public events. Of course also many people do 'period marches' and 'training weekends', but most are done to get ready for public event and to enhance your knowledge on how your kit works under 'real' conditions.

In other time periods we have also big battle shows, like Waterloo and Hastings, but for Roman times it's mainly public displays, for sure.

[Dan Howard]

Just to bring this back on subject: are there any online reviews of this book yet? Is anyone here willing to summarise the good and bad points of the text?

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

There are some good points on various methods of closure on Newstead types. I have a Newsted type "hinge" for the upper brest plate closure which is stylistic identical to the Newstead hinges. The closure of this Newsted configuration fits with this, and makes the plates a bit less rigid, and a bit more comfortable. ( I have to say: Ah Hah! ) This fits in with the Poulter proposed method of closure. Like the authors point out, there may be dozens of variations out there we just don't know much about.

If a book has Roman Armor on the cover I buy it out of obsessive compulsion disorder. Who knows what we might find next week. Anyway, It keeps the neighborhood kids entertained while I try on this or that. Some money should be spent on armor. As much as possible, actually. The rest your wife can waste on food and utilities bills and other non-essentials.

The more of these things out there, the better. Besides, I got nothing else to do...

Ralph