Romans in Germania

[Nihonius Legio]

Hey all. I've decided on a final essay for my independent study on the Roman army. I plan on writing on any evidence we have on when and why the Romans came to Germany, and then when and why they gave up on holding most of it. As on my last paper (which turned out great!), I was hoping I could use some of your expertise to help point me to good sources on the topic. Any good archaeological evidence, books on the topic, websites, and first-hand accounts would be really appreciated.
I also hope that this can also be a good place to debate the topic as well, so hopefully it can be a helpful source for others.Anyways, any help at all is appreciated. Sadly, my library doesn't have very many good books on the topic, so internet sites will prob. be vital to this.

Thanks!

[Titius_VI_Legion]

I found some interesting information at the following sites, which I used on a similar paper. Hope it helps.


http://lostfort.blogspot.com/2010/01/rom...esson.html
http://www.livius.org/ga-gh/germania/inferior.htm

[Nihonius Legio]

Anyone else have some expertise in this area?

[Jona Lendering]

Anyone else have some expertise in this area?

Many of us have, but I think you should be a bit more specific.

[Robert Vermaat]

Anyone else have some expertise in this area?

Roman soldiers in Germania?
Roman traders in Germania?
Roman travellers in Germania?
Roman scantily dressed females in Germania?

Also: define Germania (the Romanprovinces or the unconquered lands).
Also: define the period (the 1st century BC rather differed from the 5th century AD).

[john roberts]

And then there was that massive Roman battle site deep inside darkest Germania at a time when the Romans weren't supposed to be there that made such a flap a few months ago but that I haven't heard anything about since.

[Nihonius Legio]

Roman scantily dressed females in Germania?

Awesome lol!

I honestly don't have as much background in this area as I would like, so I'm not totally sure where to start. Any info relevent to when the Romans came and went from Germany (time period doesn't matter here, whatever is applicable). Any info I can get on soldiers especially, placement of camps (and when they seem to have been abandoned), defensinve barriers, etc. Anything really. I suppose knowledge on Roman trade in the area would also be of value, especially when (I'd guess) the Empire would have some interest in protecting trade in the area. As for place, anywhere they actually were in the area of modern Germany or area they called Germania (either really, if some of the territory is in modern France or Denmark, I don't mind). If they weren't in east Germany for example, that area need not apply.
Bassically I'd just like to at least be pointed in the right direction of some good, reputable sources on the topic, or any defensible ideas you guys may have on the topic. Basically, I'm in the backward situation of not knowing what exactly I'll be writing about
until I have good sources and info at hand and in mind.
I hope this is a bit more clear now...

[Ingvar Sigurdson]

Hi

Here's a starter for you
'Augustan Era Policy on the Rhine Frontier from 34 B.C.E.-16 C.E.'

http://ugrj.ucr.edu/journal/volume2/KyleMcStay.pdf

best
Ingvar

[Jona Lendering]

Basically I'd just like to at least be pointed in the right direction of some good, reputable sources on the topic, or any defensible ideas you guys may have on the topic.

• Sources: Cassius Dio, Velleius Paterculus, Tacitus' Annals (all available at Lacus Curtius).
  
• Book: Adrian Murdoch, Rome's Greatest Defeat. Massacre in the Teutoburg Forest (my review)
  
• + the 2009 special of Ancient Warfare on the Battle in the Teutoburg Forest
  

[Nihonius Legio]

Hey cool, thanks guys!
Ingvar, thanks for the article! It looks like I'll not only have it to use as a source, but can take a look at its sources as well.
Jona, thanks for the primary sources! My teacher just suggested Tacitus, I didn't realize the others had good info as well. I'd really like the book and magazine you've suggested, but sadly I don't have a subscription (yet) and I'm not sure the book would arrive in time for me to use it were I to order it.... Otherwise I'd really want to use them. Sadly, my library's selection is pretty pathetic

[Jona Lendering]

Please note the bias of Tacitus c.s.; I've discussed it here, see especially part three.

[diegis]

I am a bit intrigued about this Suetonius writing

"This Drusus, while holding the offices of quaestor and praetor, was in charge of the war in Raetia and later of that in Germany. He was the first of Roman generals to sail the northern Ocean, and beyond the Rhine with prodigious labour he constructed the huge canals which to this very day are called by his name.3 Even after he had defeated the enemy in many battles and driven them far into the wilds of the interior, he did not cease his pursuit until the apparition of a barbarian woman of greater than human size, speaking in the Latin tongue, forbade him to push his victory further".

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Ro...dius*.html

Drusus i understand is the same with Germanicus, and i know he defeated several times Arminius and even made some nasty massacres in Germania, but is it possible that some Germans to be already Romanized, at least a little, at that time?
Or under Germanic "umbrella" name to be other peoples too? Or how can be explained that "barbarian woman greater then human size who speak Latin in wilderness of nothern Germany"?

[Quintius Clavus]

Drusus, who saw the apparition at the Elbe (he died in 9 BC from an infection after he fell off his horse), is the father of Germanicus, who fought Arminius in AD 16. Yes, Roman names can get quite confusing, and titles earned by one, could be and usually were, passed onto later generations.
The Romans were superstitious and the apparition was credited with stopping Drusus from crossing the Elbe. Later and before the Varus disaster, the Elbe was crossed more than once by campaigning Roman armies.

[diegis]

Drusus, who saw the apparition at the Elbe (he died in 9 BC from an infection after he fell off his horse), is the father of Germanicus, who fought Arminius in AD 16. Yes, Roman names can get quite confusing, and titles earned by one, could be and usually were, passed onto later generations.
The Romans were superstitious and the apparition was credited with stopping Drusus from crossing the Elbe. Later and before the Varus disaster, the Elbe was crossed more than once by campaigning Roman armies.

Aha, i see, thank you very much Quintius mile:

[Jona Lendering]

the Elbe was crossed more than once by campaigning Roman armies.

Domitius Ahenobarbus certainly crossed the Elbe; Tiberius reached the river and may have crossed it, but it is not mentioned in our sources (AFAIK).