Scale Helmet

[Kai]

Hello forum,

I was actually quite sure you have discussed this before, but my search was unsuccessful.

I would like to know about helmets constructed like scale armour, or at least looking like that, particularly having the Ludovisi-Sarcophagus in mind:






Did such helmets really exist? Are they even possible? And: do we have other depictions of these? I remember some Greek vase painting, but my memory is too vague to tell exactly.

I would appreciate your opinions.

regards,
Kai

[MARCvSVIBIvSMAvRINvS]

It is not a helmet made of scales but an embossed helmet.

M.VIB.M.

[Kai]

Thanks! Knowing renaissance examples of embossed helmets I am aware of that possibility. I should have written that, mea culpa.
However my questions remain the same: did they exist in Roman times, i.e. do we know of actual unearthed examples? And: are there other depictions? I might also ask what makes you sure it is an embossed helmet.

regards

[Nathan Ross]

I think it's intended to be feathers actually, rather than scales. The helmet has an eagle's head on top, which seems to have been a common embellishment in the 3rd century.

There are no surviving helmets quite like that one, but embossed feathers and eagle heads are found on several 'cavalry sports' types, like this ghastly creation:



- Nathan

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

There are certainly no surviving Roman examples that I've ever heard of, nor any references. The closest thing might be the rather early type of helmet (5th to 4th century BC, I think?) made of bronze discs mounted on a wicker base. These are seen in artwork, and several nice examples have been found, complete with the organic foundations. However, these are not scales, the discs being rather large (one on top and 4 or 6 around the perimeter) and not overlapping.

Scale helmets were definitely used in the middle east in the Bronze Age, being described in some detail in the Nuzi tablets. Plenty of scales come from the same site, though I'm not certain if any are ascribed to helmets rather than body armor.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread....tid=509456

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Ce...owtopic=60

http://z8.invisionfree.com/Bronze_Age_Ce...topic=1120

There are also depictions of scale helmets from the later middle ages, 14th to 15th century, and I think there may be references as well.

However, I'm also inclined to interpret the helmet in relief above as a solid metal helmet that is decorated to resemble scales. For comparison, see the shield carried by a praetorian in the Cancelleria relief with a very similar motif--I don't think anyone would suggest a scale shield! Obviously a scale helmet is not an impossible concept, but I think we need something a little more solid than this particular relief to use as good evidence of its use by the Romans.

Vale,

Matthew

[Forty-One]

There are no surviving helmets quite like that one, but embossed feathers and eagle heads are found on several 'cavalry sports' types, like this ghastly creation:

There's also the helmet from Butzbach which has parts of it embossed with scales/feathers. A decent reconstruction of it is here:

http://www.ancient-warfare.org/index.php...d=40#93357

[is that how one references another post?]

One of the Heddernheim type helmets also has embossed scales on parts of the copper alloy decoration. So, given that several helmets have whorls of "hair" embossed on the bowls (or on copper alloy skinning over the iron bowls?) I think it's hardly a huge extrapolation to postulate a helmet with the bowl thus decorated. I bet they gave that sort of embossing job to the apprentices!

[PhilusEstilius]

I think it's a helmet that has been raised then finished off in a decorative style, what is of other interest is the officer standing next to this guy with a similar decorative musculata.

[Kai]

Thank you all for your thoughts! :-)
I agree the sarcophagus is not evidence for scale armoured helmets. (the scales may be really intending to imitate feather, but when I say scales I mean small metal plates attached to a backing material).
Indeed the embossed metal seems to be a likely option, which leaves us with three rather very familiar options:

1) It is artistic license: we just can never exclude it, unless we have firm evidence
2) It is embossed metal: having a tradition of embossed helmets this is not unlikely
3) It is a leather (?) helmet covered with metal (?) scales: though having a much weaker tradition for such helmets it is not impossible, especially as such helmets would be easier lost than the all metal ones.

They are familiar because these are exactly the options we discussed in the debate about the body-armour on that sarcophagus. However the likeliness of the options was different:

1) the same...
2) the possibility of breastplates with embossed scales, while perfectly possible, lacks hard evidence
3) it is almost the same with the possibility of scale body-armour possessing some features of the officer’s armour like the shoulder flaps. However since such armour would be easier lost than the all metal one, the absence of archaeological evidence cannot surprise.

But since in the case of the helmets 2) seems more likely, does this impinge on the case of the body-armour? I am really not sure here.

I would also stress the artistic license since the imagery of scale armour and helmet with eagle head on top of it is very strong – but it must come from somewhere in the military, must it?

Regards
Kai

[Crispvs]

There are of course the third century AD frescoes from Dura which appear to show scale coifs being worn by soldiers.

Crispvs

[richard robinson]

I also believe that this is embossed
but to add to ancient helmets made of scale there is apparently evidence for skythian helmets being fabricated by attaching scales to their phrygian caps. Also, as discussed elsewhere Manning Imperial fabricated a Hellenic example because he was commisioned to construct one- based on an interpretation from Greek art.
Not contemporary with the Rome per se but worth thinking about.
Regards
richard