05-14-2011, 11:09 AM
Hello Gentlemen and MeinPanzer,
I eat my words again, this time on a platter.
First, my studies have been primarily through recent Russians-- Aleckseev, Korolkova, Iusupov, Zavitukhina, and Barkova; older material from Jettmar; and new stuff from Anthony and Kelekna. Frankly, I'm surpised the Russians haven't revised their dating of the Ordos bronzes. I thank MeinPanzer for pointing the way to Bunker and Rawlings. Unfortunately their stuff isn't showing on the internet and my local and state libraries overlook anything that refers to "Asia..."
I think we did gain headway on the Orlat plaque, simply by arguably placing it in the last century BC (my prognosis) OR the first century AD (MeinPanzer's date). At least this discounts tardy dates such as 4th or 5th century AD. And these earlier dates line up with several Chinese-forged swords found in Sarmatian graves further northwest.
What the Ordos bronzes do show is a lively cultural interaction in Inner Mongolia and northwest China, exactly as expected. And the dates line up with the introduction of cavalry and steppe tack and clothing by Lord Wuling (Zhou) just before 300BC, laying a foundation that helped Shi-huang consolidate the warring states into the first dynasty. (According to Kalenka, Shi-huang carried Europoid features, likely indicating he descended from one of the steppe tribes. Personally, I always thought he looked like Jet Li.
hock: )
The late Zhou period is also the time (I think) when steppe barbarians were invited into the Ganzu corridor as a buffer, probably the Yue-zhi. This tribe and the Wusun then supplied steppe-bred horses to the Han Dynasty.
I have been long fascinated by this "Chinese connection," first to the Sarmatians, then the Roman cavalry, and finally late Roman Britain. This is what the Orlat plaque points out simply by existing. :grin:
I eat my words again, this time on a platter.
First, my studies have been primarily through recent Russians-- Aleckseev, Korolkova, Iusupov, Zavitukhina, and Barkova; older material from Jettmar; and new stuff from Anthony and Kelekna. Frankly, I'm surpised the Russians haven't revised their dating of the Ordos bronzes. I thank MeinPanzer for pointing the way to Bunker and Rawlings. Unfortunately their stuff isn't showing on the internet and my local and state libraries overlook anything that refers to "Asia..."
I think we did gain headway on the Orlat plaque, simply by arguably placing it in the last century BC (my prognosis) OR the first century AD (MeinPanzer's date). At least this discounts tardy dates such as 4th or 5th century AD. And these earlier dates line up with several Chinese-forged swords found in Sarmatian graves further northwest.
What the Ordos bronzes do show is a lively cultural interaction in Inner Mongolia and northwest China, exactly as expected. And the dates line up with the introduction of cavalry and steppe tack and clothing by Lord Wuling (Zhou) just before 300BC, laying a foundation that helped Shi-huang consolidate the warring states into the first dynasty. (According to Kalenka, Shi-huang carried Europoid features, likely indicating he descended from one of the steppe tribes. Personally, I always thought he looked like Jet Li.
hock: ) The late Zhou period is also the time (I think) when steppe barbarians were invited into the Ganzu corridor as a buffer, probably the Yue-zhi. This tribe and the Wusun then supplied steppe-bred horses to the Han Dynasty.
I have been long fascinated by this "Chinese connection," first to the Sarmatians, then the Roman cavalry, and finally late Roman Britain. This is what the Orlat plaque points out simply by existing. :grin:
Alan J. Campbell
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians
Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)
"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
