Orlat Battle Plaque\'s Importance

[Alanus]

I thought I'd pass this info to those interested in Alanic roots. They say a picture is worth a thousand words; and since the Alans and their subtribes left few words, the Orlat belt stiffener is priceless.

I spent a decade analyzing it, trying to pinpoint its origin and age. The stylistic horses are identical with the one on the famous Altai rug showing the 4th century BC horseman. The plaque depicts a famous battle between the Wusun/Alans on the left (west) and the Yue-chi (Kushans) on the right (coming from the east). The date is 2nd century BC, and the battle was fought on the outskirts of the Ili River valley, near lake Issyk Kul.


[attachment=391]orlofbeltplaque001.JPG[/attachment]

The battle shows the equipment and techniques that would later be incorporated into the Roman cavalry-- long swords, the "Sarmatian" draco, and 12-foot contus, and heavy armored horsemen. It shows that the Yue-chi lost. They moved further west and established the Kushan state in Sogdiana-Bactria, then down to India.

The equipment has parellels, first in Tacitus who describes the Roxolani's long two-handed swords. The bow is tilted forward and asymmetrical. It is what we erringly call the "Hunnish bow," yet the individuals depicted are otherwise.

[attachment=392]orlofbeltplaque002.JPG[/attachment]

The belt plate clearly shows a typical scabbard slide, attributed as an invention of the Chinese. However, if we dig back a bit, again to the Altai, we discover an even older belt plaque dating to the 5th century BC. It shows a Saka warrior, aka "eastern Scythian," ancestor of the Alans, Massagetae, and Saka Haumavarga. He is wearing a scabbard slide and riding the legendary "stag-horse." Also notice that his bow is asymmetrical with the top portion tilted forward, a standard method of shooting this type of bow.

[attachment=393]orlofbeltplaque003.JPG[/attachment]

What the Orlat Plaque shows is much that became the later Roman cavalry, and a definate Eastern influence of the two-handed longsword that crossed the Danube in AD 68.

That sword's characteristics had an early Han Dynasty origin. The belt plaque was found in Sogdiana along with items dated "from the last centuries BC to the 1st century AD." The scholarly debate of its date has never researched the shape of the sword guards, the obvious disk pommels, the long two-handed grips, and the squared scabbard chape. All these design hallmarks are found on early Han swords. The idea that these weapons are Hunnish discounts what a short-handled Hunnish sword looked like. Even the top-knot worn by a warrior at the right fits the style worn by the Yue-chi, as recorded by the Chinese and referenced by Pita Kelekna.

For whatever it's worth.:-)

[Ron Andrea]

Neat. Do you have a picture of the rugs itself? I can't find it anywhere. Does it have a formal name?

[Robert Vermaat]

Thanks Alan!

the battle was fought on the outskirts of the Ili River valley, near lake Issyk Kul.

I looked it u on GoogleMaps: what a remote corner of the world, yet on avery busy crossroads from east to West and vice versa. One cannot help but wonder about the thousands of battles that must have been fought over this piece of land, and the many stories about them, now undoubtedly lost.

I wonder which names these heroes had? I can imagine this was an epic battle which the artist depicted, already looking back 200 years?

[John Conyard]

Back in 2009 the Orlate plaques were mentioned in threads about "Massagetean heavy cavalry in Gaugamela?" and "Gorytoi". I can no longer post links to the threads but they are worth a read.

The Orlat iconography interests me on several levels. It is certainly very difficult to date, but does show the "hunnic bow" carried in a strung case. My feeling would be to attribute a mid 3rd century AD date to the equipment shown, based specifically the style of neck guard, bows, scabards and integral large tubular arrow quivers. But it is not an opinion I hold dear.

I hope others are able to post their opinions on the equipment and possibly dating.

[Alanus]

I wonder which names these heroes had? I can imagine this was an epic battle which the artist depicted, already looking back 200 years?

Agreed! Whoever the artist was, it almost seems like he knew who the leaders were. And the depiction, east to west, plus all the fine details of the weapons, makes it so valuable. He even put the pin on the end of the disk pommel; and that helps date the swords. If I can load a picture of the 5th to 4th century BC Altai felt rug, we can see another horse depicted in the exact artistic style-- Saka or Masagetae/Alan:


[attachment=406]ScythianHorsemanPazyryk300BCE.jpg[/attachment]

[Alanus]

Hello John,

You favor a late date and fall in with Boris Marshak. M.V. Gorelik even advanced the plaque's date to the White Hun / Epthalite period.

I'm inclined to agree with G.A.Pugachenkova who placed it in the "Sarmatian horizen" 2nd cent. BC to 1st cent. AD. One reason for "early" is the stylized horse on the Altai rug (or wall hanging) as posted just above.

The plaque shows wedge-shaped grip checks, not straight ones. These were popular from the Warring States period to the Three Kingdoms era, but not later. The blunted-ended chape follows the same time-pattern. Here is a late Warring States to early Han sword in my collection:
[attachment=409]WSsword.2.JPG[/attachment]
This museum replica sword has all the characteristics of those on the plaque except for the scabbard slide.
The other thing worth noting is the multiple depiction of disk pommels. Every sword has one, and we can even see the pin on one of them. All the swords have two-handed grips, falling in with Tacitus and also the Warring States to early Han archaeological examples. Here are originals dated to the early argumentative date. Look at the long grips!
[attachment=410]earlyhanswords014.JPG[/attachment]
And here are late Warring States to early Han fittings found on the above swords, nearly identical grip checks and disk pommels to the Orlat illustration:
[attachment=412]earlyhanswords013.JPG[/attachment]


Here is a late "migration era" Hunnic sword or four centuries later:
[attachment=411]earlyhanswords012.JPG[/attachment]
It has a short one-handed grip. Even the Alanic and Gothic swords of the late third centuries had single-handed grips. And late grip checks are straight across, top and bottom parallel to each other.

Well anyway, these are my findings. I seem to be limited to 3 or 4 photos per post before the "thread cops" kick in. We need to address the bows, because they are not necessarily Hunnic. Take care.

[John Conyard]

I feel trying to date the iconography using the stylisation of the horses is rather weak. The more so since our Skythian rider is using entiely different quipment than on the Orlat plaque.

However you are on safer ground when trying to date the plaque using the sword. Set against the dating of the neck guards, bows and quivers this makes this bit of artwork very hard to date.

I also find it hard to understand the saddles being used. They look as if they have high cantles, and so are later than four horned saddles, but it is hard to be sure.

I like to see gradual development in equipment and these quivers do show a development over earlier models which also points to a AD 3/4th century date.

But it is all very difficult to interpret with any degree of certainty.

[bachmat66]

Alanus,
interesting take and fine research!
How do you find then the portraiture, armor and equipment shown in the Khalchayan Халчаян sculptures etc? bwy Simonenko deals with Orlat a bit in his new book on Sarmatians
there is a Chinese artwork from 2-1 century BC from Hebei province showing similar bow to the Orlat plate images.
a proposito, what is you basis for dating the belt plaque to the 5th century BC - because Victor Mair (after Sun:1996) gives it a Xiongnu origin and dates it to 2nd century BC (Mair:2003).

[John Conyard]

It seems to me that the Chinese iconography shows a bow with smooth recurved limbs, almost "Skythian", compared to the Orlat bows "broken" curvature produced by the attached ears as with "Hunnic bows. They are very different.

The Orlat style quiver is certainly a joy to use. I use the two tubes for differing weights of war arrows, all with bodkin heads.

[Alanus]

Alanus,
interesting take and fine research!
How do you find then the portraiture, armor and equipment shown in the Khalchayan Халчаян sculptures etc? bwy Simonenko deals with Orlat a bit in his new book on Sarmatians
there is a Chinese artwork from 2-1 century BC from Hebei province showing similar bow to the Orlat plate images.
a proposito, what is you basis for dating the belt plaque to the 5th century BC - because Victor Mair (after Sun:1996) gives it a Xiongnu origin and dates it to 2nd century BC (Mair:2003).

Thanks for the 2-1st century BC pic. Like the Orlat plaque, it shows an asymmetrical bow tilted upper-leg forward. I'm not alone in the idea that asyommetrical bows with siyahs were not strictly a Hunnic invention. They were used by several eastern cultures and must date back to the 3rd century BC or earlier. Here is a late one found in the Tarim, if I don't get sued for showing it:
[attachment=486]swordbowdrawings001.JPG[/attachment]


In the original post I dated the plaque to the second century BC. Actually, we can be a little more precise than Mair. Two famous battles were fought, one right after the other. Fist, the Huns under the leadership of Modu drove the Yue-chi westward from the Gansu corridor and Tarim in 175 BC. This could be what is pictured on the Orlat plaque.

But I'm in favor of the depiction being the second battle, in 162 BC, when the Yue-chi reached the Ili Valley and were repulsed and beaten by the Wusun/Alans as aided by the Huns under Laoshang, son of Modu. This accounts for the perfect stylization of Western victors (the guy on the left lancing the invading leader) defeating invaders comimg from the East (the group on the right side of the plaque).

My major interest in the plaque is its relation to the sword style mentioned by Tacitus, long and two handed. Any later sword carried by the Alans or Sarmatians had a much shorter grip than illustrated.

[Alanus]

It seems to me that the Chinese iconography shows a bow with smooth recurved limbs, almost "Skythian", compared to the Orlat bows "broken" curvature produced by the attached ears as with "Hunnic bows. They are very different.

The Orlat style quiver is certainly a joy to use. I use the two tubes for differing weights of war arrows, all with bodkin heads.

Nice photo of the quiver, John!

The Chinese picture is very stylized, but shows a bow much longer than the Scythian model. Early Chinese bows had long siyahs but they were attached at lesser an angle than the standard "Hunnic." The bows are still made.

My best argument for the early date of mid-2nd century BC, are the blatantly obvious long sword grips, only found during the early Han period. Here are 3rd century AD Sarmatian swords as pictured in Brzezinski and Mielczarek:
[attachment=487]swordbowdrawings002.JPG[/attachment]

The grips of these swords are far shorter than those on the Orlat plaque. And notice the disk pommel (a carryover from the earlier Warring States to Han period) and the big rock center-pinned to the pommel. This style of construction goes right back to the sword I pictured in detail on the original post. I examined several of these later swords at the Archaeological Museum in Odessa, almost identical with deteriorated pinned construction.

I don't think we can ever have definitive dating the plaque, and the proposals offered in the past vary over a period of 500 years. But none of this devalues the importance of the plaque itself. It is a priceless artifact and a wonderful link between historical cavalries of East and West.:grin:

[John Conyard]

Yes, the Orlat plaqus do show long siyahs mouned at an extreme angle, unlike the Chinese image from Hebei.

But very like the much later Kotan brocade. A strung bow case with two arrow tube-like quivers, assymetrical bow, long sihahs, all carried vetically and high on the belt.

This textile mirrors the illustration of the Niya bow from an Osprey book you show above. This is also generally considered to be AD mid 3rd century.

The Niya is described as having bone pieces at the ears and
grip, and assymetrical. Take a look at:

http://www.atarn.org/magyar/niya.htm
http://www.atarn.org/magyar/niya_2.htm
http://www.atarn.org/chinese/khotan_bow.htm

I suspect some of us already view this forum and it is a good source for information.

I use the term Hunnic too often but Niya seems to fall within the remit, and
be dated around AD 250-350. The long quiver tubes and the strung bow case
match those from Orlat.

http://www.pontos.dk/publications/papers...er-weapons
has a crack at identifying a find of such a double tubular quiver in the
Bosporan kingdom. They seem to get get longer through time, perhaps
something to do with increasing draw lengths and bow laths.

I suspect such Asiatic quivers with integral tubular quivers allowed the
Hunnic bows to be carried strung. But there are very heavy and in time it woul amke sense to separate the bow case from the arrow quiver.

Although all of the above ignores he issue of sword shape and style. Artists licence seldoms comes with a date of issue. :wink:

[bachmat66]

Salve,
this Russian site - military history of pre-Russian Siberia - has some interesting images & text related to Hunnic and pre-Hunnic northern Eursian steppe of Siberia
here Huns and their bows http://history.novosibdom.ru/?q=node/45 ( is is from a book by archaeologist)
Also they differentiate between the long pallasch and straight sword (Swietoslawski in Nomad Armour and Weapons... talks about a pallasch as a steppe weapon)
now here is Tashtyk culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tashtyk_culture , with warriors similar to Orlat plaque http://history.novosibdom.ru/?q=node/33
I have the book on Benjamin of Yuezhi,and while they are quite interesting indeed, Yeuzhi seem to belong to Khalchayan-like warriors, with elongated skulls, and 'jockey cup' helmets, neck collars, and a whole body covering laminated and lammellar armor.

Simonenko in his book on the Sarmatians talks about these extra long swords, on page 68-69, and offers a reconstruction too - he ascribes these swords to the 1st century AD, but he dates Orlat to 2nd-1st century BC - and makes a connection between the Sagrat culture http://history.novosibdom.ru/?q=node/43 and Kuban Sarmatian culture, while another Russian writer and archaeologist talks about long swords and their prevalence in grave burials in the Black Sea Sarmatians.
Finally how to you view the Sassanid art showing long swords with that long grip in this context?

[Alanus]

Hello Bachmat66,

Most of the reference-links you posted convey a picture of Yenisei cultures close to those in the Altai. We do not know from which group the Wusun/Alans and Yue-chi came from, but there were obvious ties, especially in equipment and armor. The so-called "late Sarmatian" cultures of the Crimea and Kuban, I think were these same peoples... after migrating westward. They are described as having a mixture of Asiatic and Europoid features.

There is no fodder here that can be used as "ethnic" preference-- these people show all the mixed features that Jackie Chan described! We're all the same inside. And that's why I dress in an Alanic impression.

Here again, we get evaluations of the swords as c. 1st century and the Orlat plaque as 2nd to 1st century BC. So I don't feel too foolish in agreeing with so many Russian archaeologists.:grin:

Thanks for posting these links. I have not studied the Sassanid dipictions of these long-gripped, narrow-bladed, swords, but still feel they are of Warring States origin. It's nice to know that others agree that the scabbard slide had a northeastern steppe origin, and not Chinese.:wink:

[Alanus]

I suspect some of us already view this forum and it is a good source for information.

http://www.pontos.dk/publications/papers...er-weapons
has a crack at identifying a find of such a double tubular quiver in the
Bosporan kingdom. They seem to get get longer through time, perhaps
something to do with increasing draw lengths and bow laths.

Thanks, John. The article by M. Treister describes daggers, swords, and bowcase-quivers of the Bosporan 1st to 2nd century. This falls somewhere between our arguments for an early and later date of the Orlat plaque. Too bad that Treister's illustrations were not reproduced in this PDF version. However, most of us are familiar enough with the weapons described to visualize them.

Interesting, too, are the descriptions of an akinakes worn strapped to the right leg. I designed something similar for my own kit, even modifying it to fit more fluidly. The same with the scabbard-slide strap. The average modern artist, in drawing how the scabbard "dangles" in an uncontrollable fashion, has done no justice to the inherent advantage of the scabbard slide. I worked on this problem and discovered a solution that tucks the sword as almost part of one's body.:wink:

It's my goal in these three related "Sarmatian" theads to kindle interest and awareness that a Sarmatian kit can be put together with some form of historical accuracy.

Thanks, and keep riding..