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Roman crossbow pics
#1
I can't believe it. I just received the pictures of the only two known Roman crossbow reliefs! The Museé Crozatier is so great, I love them, vive la France. To the best of my knowledge, there have never appeared in newer publications and so hardly anybody knows that the Romans, too, used portable crossbows. I will erect a MONUMENT for the Museé Crozatier, this is overwhelming, I never expected them to be SO generous. Vive le Museé Crozatier dans Le Puy!
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#2
Excellent!

Now don't forget to post a link when you have it up.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#3
Pics please, and I will offer a beer-libation to you!
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#4
I am guessing a hunting rather than a military context for these crossbows?
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
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#5
Yes, both depict hunting scenes and both were found within a radius of less than 10 km from the town of Le Puy in Central-Southern France. Isn't this curious, the only two certain pieces of evidence in the whole empire so close? However, the reflexive shape of the bow indicates that the weapon may have been also known further east.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#6
Roman crossbows are mentioned by Vegetius and possibly by Arrian in a mounted context when he writes of "machines". These two 3rd century carvings of hunting equipment from the Haute-Loire region of France seem to show such weapons in detail and my reconstruction is based on these carvings. A recurve bow of probably composite construction is mounted on a tiller, with a revolving circular bone nut as part of the trigger mechanism. A wooden handle is placed at the end of the tiller. The trigger itself is a simple “Z”-shaped lever, as used on all early crossbows. Baatz suggested the archer would place his feet on the bow either side of the tiller, using his hands and back to pull the string upwards as with a medieval crossbow. However this technique could damage the bow itself, especially if the operator is using hobnailed boots. Instead when on foot it is natural for the operator to place his right hand on top of the handle, forcing the bow into the ground vertically, while the string is pulled back and secured to the nut with the left hand. On horseback the handle can be braced on the front of the saddle while the string is pulled downwards with both hands. The handle then acts as an almost pistol-like grip, allowing the crossbow to be shot one-handed. The trigger releases the circular bone nut which rolls forward releasing the string. The reconstruction illustrated has a draw weight of 45lbs. But a more powerful bow could be used and the lashing to the tiller strengthened. The maximum draw weight is limited by the hand draw to about 90lbs.



[attachment]5. Loading the crossbow..jpg[/attachment]


The French carvings show a good size quiver, long enough to hold a normal size arrow. However the draw distance of the crossbow is relatively small, only 300mm compared to 700mm for a normal bow. Therefore I typically use light 25g bolts. The low kinetic energy of the missile allows for the use of bone heads rather than iron. A bolt with a bone head can be as light as 10g. The weapon can shoot a bolt to 90m with some degree of accuracy, and within 40m the accuracy can be startling. The bolt, even shot at such low velocity, could certainly have a military application. During sieges and for sniping the operator would only have to expose the upper portion of the head, and the weapon can be mastered easily. However they are at their best as a hunting weapon. The arcuballista takes twice as long to load as a normal bow on foot, but considerably longer on horseback. However it would allow the soldier to out range all barbarian weapons, except for bows.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#7
Sorry. take a look at

http://www.comitatus.net/galleryartillery.html
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#8
Apart from the two Roman crossbows above, there is also a third possible example, on a sarcophagus excavated in the vicinity of Rome in the 1960s. It depicts Hercules shooting a bow at the Stymphalian Birds (p. 501, fig. 7, left) The Illustrated London News (6 April 1963) - The Labours of Hercules, p. 501-502. According to the article, it was planned to move the sarcophagus to the Museo Nazionale in Rome, but I have been unable yet to find pics of it.

Now
1. do you think Hercules holds a crossbow or a normal bow?
2. do you know what is the exact name of the sarcophagus and where I can get high-res photos of the piece? I'd like to verify if this really is a crossbow.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#9
Hi Stefan!

To me it looks like Hercules is holding a pick axe!?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
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#10
Sorry, it is p. 501, fig. 7, left.
Stefan (Literary references to the discussed topics are always appreciated.)
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#11
Quote:Sorry, it is p. 501, fig. 7, left.

Ok, will check ;-) ,
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
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#12
Quote:1. do you think Hercules holds a crossbow or a normal bow?
I am unconvinced that this is a crossbow, Stefan. The pose of Hercules exactly parallels the pose found on two (and maybe more) mosaics, where he is clearly using a bow. This is a 3rd C mosaic from Madrid:
[attachment=313]Hercules_MadridMosaic.jpg[/attachment]
There is a similar one in Volubilis, Morocco.


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posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#13
That looks like a normal bow, being held like a normal bow!
[size=75:2kpklzm3]Ghostmojo / Howard Johnston[/size]

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[size=75:2kpklzm3]Xerxes - "What did the guy in the pass say?" ... Scout - "Μολὼν λαβέ my Lord - and he meant it!!!"[/size]
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#14
Yes, it looks like a normal bow but the proportions seem a bit odd to me. Also, if it is a normal bow that arrow is extremely thick. However, working with stone requires some artistic license, I would imagine. We can't expect a perfect representation in such a material.
David J. Cord
www.davidcord.com
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#15
This is by repute, a 4th century cross-bow bolt. I came with a group of objects from the Balkans that were of Roman manufacture and dated from the late 3rd century to the mid 4th century. Given the nature of the patina, and context, I am fairly sure this is not a fake or from who knows where. If anyone knows better, let me know

When I aquire these pieces, it is my purpose to gve them to a Museum who will curate them in an appropriate way.

[attachment=519]crossbow_bolt.jpg[/attachment]

I added both inch and metric scales fro your viewing pleasure.

Ralph


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