Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
the eagle
#31
Quote:I agree with Vindex, I did not much care for Centurion at first either, but it grew on me, and I have watched if a few times, and replayed the battle scene several times, and I feel irritatingly could have been filmed better... Why did every legionary abandon their shield after the fighting began?

I took part in most of the Legionary fight scenes in Centurion and wasn't aware that the majority of the Legionaries did abandon their Scutum's except for when we were playing corpses lying on the forest floor with lots of theatrical blood being poured over us :wink: .

Absolutely agree with the obvious criticisms of the tactical blunderings of the ambushed legion, however it fitted in with the plot line of what (as people have observed) was a chase movie with Roman bits.

Centurion though did make a reasonable effort with the arms and armour, the segmentata and imperial gallic helmets were reasonable Carbon Fibre repros. For my money for what it was it was a better final product than the Eagle.
Marc Byrne
Reply
#32
Forgive me if I sounded critical Marc, "Centurion" did an excellent job with the costumes, much better than the bigger budget "The Eagle". With the main battle being less than 3 minutes, I really cannot complain about it. It was sort of gory and the Romans just get slaughtered, but you are correct, it was necessary to fit the plot line.
Quintus Furius Collatinus

-Matt
Reply
#33
Quote:For my money for what it was it was a better final product than the Eagle.
I absolutely agree. The story was a bit thin but good enough, and if they had not botched up the defeat of the 'legion'it would have been comparable to Gladiator. And indeed, for a smaller budget thn 'Eagle' they did a far better job.

Perhaps future producers of Roman battles should refrain from attempts to show the whole batle. This will always be difficult if you do not know enough about strategy, plus you need to use a lot of (costly) cgi to show anything of quality. Why not film from a individual's perpective and show confusion, shock and that sort of stuff? It would look much better than barbarians rolling down burning shrub from a hillside! :mrgreen:
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#34
CGI is not so costly anymore. This is a trailer for a medieval sports event:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJTAAV5CW2I[/video]
Reply
#35
I'd just settle for a battle scene with lines of infantry facing off, rather than the Hollywood one-to-one fracas...!!!

I too like Centurion alot. Its got a nice 'north of the wall feel'; whereas The Eagle has a nice 'Hudson Valley East Canadian Alconquin' feel !! Confusedhock:
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#36
Right, here goes.

I can't really do the review in the previous format, because Centurion is not as bloody stupid a movie as the Eagle is. It is by no means smart, but not stupid either. You may or may not have noticed but in my Eagle text I'm not really deriding historical inconsistencies, I'm picking of internal nonsense, on stupidity of the movie itself. I don't care if pilum is shaped like a real one, it can be pink with green leaves attached for all I care, but if soldiers have pila they should use it for something else than showing off. So I won't be picking on Centurion for the ubiquitous bracers, some stupid helmets and so on. The kit the soldiers have they pretty much use.

As an aside - is the movie so blue because blue colour makes plastic armour look like metal (sorta, kinda, not really)? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just buy metal deepeeka segs? The plastics must have cost a fortune... Is it "elf'n'safety" at work?

1. Gray Hair must die! (or The Battle)
Much has been said about the battle here. Stupid, OK, I don't care. Ambushes did happen despite best efforts of the ambushed. What I really didn't like:
- It's basically the ambush scene from The Last of the Mohicans. Unlike Eagle the Centurion does not feature Magua, but references the same movie. And while redcoats forming in ranks and firing at the forest had some sense, legionaries trying to "hold the line!!!" against rolling fireballs... What would be the point? Some demonstration of manliness? After this it becomes worse, because:
- The battle is boring! Seriously, stupid or not stupid, it is just boring. The entire scene is:
SSHHHING!
AAAARGH
and this times 50. Some stupid amount of THE SAME FREAKING SCENE of superwarrior stabbing a soldier with a sword (sshhhhing!). The same scene! Fifty times! When it was enjoyable the first 0 times. This entire battle could have been shot with 4 actors. All those extras, the terrain, all wasted. SSHHING! AAAARGH! Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, oh Gawd, make it stop!

And then the legionaries die, the Picts not giving a damn about policing the battlefield depart and the Special Forces form. Once they have this burdensome army out of the way they can get to serious ass kicking.
- This battle removes from the movie one of the two characters I cared about. The guy who played Russel Crowe. The soldier's soldier, stereotypical so much it hurt, but he did pull it off and he was actually enjoyable to watch. He is then replaced by some Jesus in Chains (well, chainmail), teflon-smooth, ideal, boring as hell.

2. The newly formed Spec Ops team starts the ninja stuff. The team is formed and everyone (or was it later?) introduces themselves.
- Hello, I'm Stereotype A
- And I'm stereotype B
- I'm the Token Black Guy
And so on. In itself it's not bad. Stereotypical teams can be well put together and enjoyable. Vide Blade II, a stupid movie with a highly stereotype-heavy team that was still fun. This one is just dry, as if the director felt the character building was done by the introduction itself and now we could get to the ninja stuff.

3. Ninja stuff.
Yaaaaaaawn.

4. They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!
They're taking the hobbits to Isengard!
So they run. And run. There is some plan and they run. The plan becomes obsolete the moment the Russian chick joins the hunt, but this will not stand in the way of rehashing LotR scenes. At this moment I was packing my gear for a training and couldn't be much bothered to look at the screen. Yes, yes, I saw it all before, but Mortensen can actually act.

5. Party exchange.
The Romans decide to raid the enemy camp. Just two of them. Why two? What were the others supposed to guard? They didn't have a bloody thing. Why didn't they stash the wounded guy somewhere and all go? What were those two expecting to achieve against 8 or something? If they were this good why didn't they... ah, fuck it.
The Picts do the same, there's some killing on both sides of the river and logically the Romans win. Why? Because the Picts didn't take their horses on the raid. They left them with guards just killed by the Romans. The Romans now have horses! They can just take them and have mounts for themselves and to spare, they can be back in their own lines in a day or two! Ah, sod it, they go back on foot. Not even killing the horses to make it harder for the enemy. In their own camp they find the wounded guy. The Picts "left him to bleed" in spite of the Russian chick having orders to bring back heads. So they run again.

6. The scene in the hut with the clean chick. It is fairly enjoyable, but just... it doesn't have a role in this movie. It's a bit random, like a space filler. "Guys, we have to do something with 15mins". It doesn't mean a lot, it doesn't lead to anything, it's just coasting on idle, waiting for the final fight. Oh, and telling us the Romans are good and the Russian chick is bad.

7. The bad guy shows he's bad. So why was he willing to risk his life for Russel Crowe guy before? He wasn't bad then? Ah, crap, I blame permissive society. Oh, and we are shown we were Totally Wrong About The Black Guy and It Was Just A Stereotype. Kids, I hope you all Learned An Important Lesson Today.

8. The final fight.
I sort of enjoyed it. It made me stop packing my clothes for a moment. Not much to say.

9. The end.
Oh, wow, I was TOTALLY not expecting that!
Sorry, I was. Really.



All in all it is hard to write about this movie because it is so bland. There's not a lot to sink your teeth into. It's one of the "watched without pain, won't watch again" things. Not as stupid as Eagle and able to show relationships between soldiers without pointless climbing the Brokebackus Mountain, not stupid, not smart, sort of non-stick surface. I paid 4GBP for the DVD, it's a fair price. The fact the movie is laden with stupid tropes (again, the camps are death traps, why did Romans build them?), strippers with swords (a well known fact - make a good looking girl strip and give her a weapon and she becomes unstoppable), some half-arsed moral case, some token bad guy who becomes bad suddenly and without any reason... all those tropes do not matter much. A good director can pull them off, make them work. Here they are a chain of stuff that just doesn't link together, the movie doesn't work, it's like disconnected heap of jigsaw puzzles.

There were two character I cared about. The Legate (the character who played Russel Crowe) and the Pict chief. Both decent actors, both suggested some depth to them, both were enjoyable to watch, both I'd like to see more of. Instead we get a Playboy model chasing some watered down Aragorn wannabe by sniffing his pants from 1000 metres.

Meh.

Ah, one last thing - what was the Big Evil Plan? The Russian chick was planted as a sleeper agent to lure a legion north? The Pict chief knew Rome would send a legion eventually? And how was the Russian chick supposed to achieve that? She was a dirty barbarian who couldn't speak! What did she do, point suggestively to the north and stroke the golden Eagle? And when she was reporting on Roman movements to her superiors was she making "uga! uga!" sounds ("1 legion, no scouts, 532m sou-by-sou-east")? Ah, no matter I guess
Reply
#37
Quote:I'd just settle for a battle scene with lines of infantry facing off"

But, like watching re-enactors do it, I suspect that line fights get very dull very quickly.

Although it was probably the best bit in Troy, where the two lines clash in front of the city and just grind away at each other whilst a bloody red mist develops around them.

[quote]The Eagle has a nice 'Hudson Valley East Canadian Alconquin' feel

Which is odd, given that all of the Scotish bits were filmed in Scotland.
"Medicus" Matt Bunker

[size=150:1m4mc8o1]WURSTWASSER![/size]
Reply
#38
Quote:All those extras, the terrain, all wasted. SSHHING! AAAARGH! Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, oh Gawd, make it stop!
[..]
"watched without pain, won't watch again"
[..]
Meh.
I love it.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#39
Quote:
Quote:The Eagle has a nice 'Hudson Valley East Canadian Alconquin' feel

Which is odd, given that all of the Scotish bits were filmed in Scotland.

Oh its not the scenery, its the Seal People.

I too love Centurion, and I like the first half of The Eagle. I also like the fight at the finish of Centurion. Nice!

Best bit though, is when the female tracker catches up with that legionary straggler and cuts his head off; not 'swoosh its gone', but hack hack hack with her knife until the corpse topples over sideways into the river. I've seen lots of gory movies, but that counts as an 'urgh!' moment!
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#40
Thank you Piotr...well worth waiting for! Big Grin

(If only for the Hobbits clip... :wink:. Not seen that before but recently was FORCED to watch the extended cut of ALL THREE movies to help someone with their filmatography course or some such nonsense...I said he should have been doing Latin and Ancient military history but he wasn't listening!!)

Anyway...most enjoyable.

(PS - if you like Viggo Mortensen's films check out The Spanish Musketeer...but learn Spanish quick as there's a bit left out in the subtitles!!!)
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
Reply
#41
Quote:I also like the fight at the finish of Centurion. Nice!
Which fight at the finish? That struggle in the abandoned 'fort'? Or the struggle in the room at the headquarters?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#42
That last ditch fight in the fort. I spotted some suitably gory moves in there I liked.
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#43
What can I say? I liked it. Well, the first part of the movie, until they went over the wall. Sure, the armor and kit wasn't right, but it had the right "feel." Reenactors suck the joy out of any movie... "Look dammit, those Imperial Stormtroopers don't have the right boots from the other films" or "Darth Vader's helmet is not symmetrical..." Who cares. NO MOVIE WILL EVER REALLY BE ACCURATE. You are dealing w/ "arteests" and such, not historians. Artists go w/ feel, not w/ accuracy.

The Seal People
Yeah, that was crap. I saw the trailers and was like "What? Hey look, urban camo... I ain't watchin' that." However, it was on TV whilst I was surfing and I saw them in the fort. I stopped saying "I'll move on in a second" and got snared watching the movie. I LIKED the whole testudo scene and real soldierly-looking legionary's, not 45 year old fat guys. "Totumba ne boda Solo..." "My master says your armor is not right and your helmet is too shiny." Anyway, some accuracy for the "seal people" might have been nice.

Lighten up Francis
It's a movie. Hell, it ain't even true... Legio IX is MY unit. I have read all I can find on it -- they didn't get greased in Scotland. It's like the Germans using Arminius as a great hero to buck up their national "feel good" status. Same here w/ Scotland. Sorry folks, ya didn't win.

It's a nice story. It has a Roman theme and a good feel. Don't be so anal you moon-faced assassins of joy. (sorry, sci-fi quotes often amuse me).
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
Reply
#44
Quote:It's a nice story. It has a Roman theme and a good feel. Don't be so anal you moon-faced assassins of joy. (sorry, sci-fi quotes often amuse me).
I did not mind what helmets or armour or boots they used. That did not bother me in 'Gladiator' either. They killed a great book. Stone dead. That's my beef with this sorry excuse of a Roman movie. :x
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
Reply
#45
Ahh. Probably true, but... since I knew what the book was ABOUT, and since I don't like non-Disney endings ( Tongue )AND since I AM in Legio IX, I wasn't gonna read it. I may now, thanks to the movie. It's like the new Sherlock Holmes flicks.. you have to suspend your historical knowledge. :-)
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Eagle/Eagle of the Ninth Competition - USA ParthianBow 0 719 02-23-2011, 01:32 PM
Last Post: ParthianBow

Forum Jump: