Unknown soldiers - help needed

[Olaf The Viking]

A friend of mine have painted for me a Roman and a Viking and I want to place some labels but I don't know exactly what are they.

Probably it will be easier with the Viking: "Viking 10th Century" :grin:
Is the Roman a Pretorian?

[jvrjenivs]

The first one could be meant as a pretorian. At least he's using an attic helmet and has a cloak which could be meant as a officers cloak. However, he has braccae (trousers) on, which would not be in favour amongst the pretioriani, most probably.

The second figure I would call a gemanic chief. Some 'viking' influences indeed and I'm not sure if I would date it to the 10th century. It probably was meant to depict someone a bit ealier then that.

[Forty-One]

The Roman appears to represent one of the figures on a relief of soldiers which is now in the Louvre in Paris.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/julio-claud...462176352/

They are now usually interpreted as praetorians of around the time of Claudius (although their kit would not have changed very much, if at all, in later periods).

The figure they have chosen to model seems to be the one on the far left. The head and lower parts of the body of this figure are said to have been restored in the 19th century so the accuracy of the details on the body (especially of his belt) are a bit uncertain. The long trousers and boots would suggest that he is on campaign out on the wild frontiers somewhere.

[KET]

Agree with the others on the Roman.
The second figure appears to Rus - Eastern Viking. The baggy trousers are the give away. Based on the sword hilt/axe/etc., 9th-10th Century is probably about right. It looks like he's holding the helmet by a spectacled visor similar to the Gjermundbu (probably butchered the spelling) helmet of the late 800s - but I don't remember the integral mail on that one. It that regard, the helmet looks rather like the pre-Viking Valsgarde funerary helmet from about the 6th-7th centuries, but the style of the helmet is definately later.

[Olaf The Viking]

I have found the Roman. It is a copy after El Viejo Dragon. They say it is "Roman Tribune German frontier".

http://www.elviejodragon.com/imagenes/CGF073.JPG

Good observation about the trousers, Kat. I didn't noticed them.
Thank you all very much. Now I have to much information. :grin: :grin: :grin:

I have a viking with eastern trousers and with a chainmail which don't "mix" with the helmet.
And I have a "Claudiu's Roman Praetorian Tribune German Frontier".

[KET]

As far as your comment about the mail not matching the helmet, that's not necessarily true at all! I just said I wasn't aware of the Gjermandbu helmet having such a mail aventail (?). That doesn't mean it didn't. Earlier helmets certainly did. Some other period helmets (such as at least one Anglo-Saxon find) have them as well. But as far as bona fide Vikings go, I believe somewhere in the neighborhood of almost exactly one (1) survive. So the helmet on your figure is certainly plausible or even probable.

[Chock]

The Roman could just possibly be a Praetorian based on his armour and clothing, although it is fairly elaborate compared to what a typical soldier might wear. If he is not a Praetorian, then he is certainly likely to be of a high rank, based on the fact that his outfit would not be cheap. There are little clues as to his wealth, for example the golden tassles on his tunic sleeves and cloak and his fairly ornate helmet, which has decorative bits on it which would be unnecessary for a mere protective helmet of the kind a typical soldier would wear.

As you may know, the term 'Praetorian' is usually taken to mean 'a member of the Praetorian Guard', the word being derived from the office of a Praetor, a Praetor being someone in a position of power, such as a magistrate or the commander of an army.

These sort of influential and important Roman leaders typically would have a headquarters, which in the case of an army leader in the field would most likely be a fancy tent, and such an HQ was called a Praetorium. This HQ would have a guard unit assigned to it - Praetorian Guard. Much later in Roman times, the term Praetorian Guard came to mean the Emperor's personal army unit (i.e. a bodyguard unit for the Emperor made up from trusted soldiers), and it was these guys who had the really ornate outfits that you sometimes see depicted in movies.

Nevertheless, status symbols being what they are, the commander of an army would not want scruffy 'grunts' around his HQ, so Praetorians at an army HQ would likely be better equipped, more experienced and trusted soldiers, and as a result of this, they'd most likely have quite fancy equipment by virtue of the fact that they'd probably be able to afford it from years of campaigning and looting. Since your model is a depiction of a soldier in autumn (based on the terrain), it is conceivable that such guards would have winter clothing on, so the fact that he has trousers on is not necessarily indicative of anything other than he may be on a military campaign and simply wants to keep warm, i.e he is effectively doing the 'when in Rome, do as the Romans do' expedient of adopting local clothing for a chillier climate.

You can see this sort of thing going on even today, i.e. there are many soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq who have acquired Arabic-style Keffiyah scarves because of their practicality in the desert, although western soldiers invariably refer to them as 'shemagh scarves' this being an alternative name for the keffiyah. These aren't issued, or even part of what might be called the 'approved uniform', but they are nevertheless seen a lot.

In short, he can be whomever you want him to be, so long as you are aware that he is quite fancy compared to an average soldier.

Al