SCA members?

[john roberts]

Edward,
Any idea who made that cavalry helmet? Sorry, I found this thread late.

[jkaler48]

These may be of interest:





http://foxknife.com

What materials are used in making the blades?

[Thomas Mac Finn]

Both handle and blade is a single piece of rattan.

The blades are covered with Duck brand mylar "chrome" colored duct tape (not foil tape, which is prohibited by SCA rules), the guard is stainless steel and the striking surface marked with a strip of electrical tape. Foam thrusting tip.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Those look interesting!

Our group does a training combat session as part of our dispaly, all in historically accurate kit.
However, we use padded javalins and wooden swords.
Those look interesting though!

[Thomas Mac Finn]

Wait, so the SCA won't let you use "Imperial Roman" helmets because it exposes too much of the face, but they are ok with a "Corinthian" style helmet?

To be specific, the helmet rule is no gaps more than 1" wide (the rattan swords have a minimum cross section of 1.25"). The idea is that a sword should not be able to fit inside a helm. If the Coronthian helmet has an eye slot wider than an inch, it needs bars added or some other modification to narrow that gap also.

[Magnus]

Guys, you don't want to mess around with rattan using reenactment gear. You'll get f**ked up lol. The sca have pretty strict requirements for armour, and with good reason.

[Thomas Mac Finn]

I imagine some beating would add a little realism to your gear - transition the look from 'parade' to 'gritty veteran'.

[Quintus Claudius Scaevola]

Both handle and blade is a single piece of rattan.

The blades are covered with Duck brand mylar "chrome" colored duct tape (not foil tape, which is prohibited by SCA rules), the guard is stainless steel and the striking surface marked with a strip of electrical tape. Foam thrusting tip.

Perhaps I need another angle, but am I just not seeing the hand guard?

It certainly looks interesting...is it legal in all Kingdoms? An Tir tends to be pretty harsh on inspections, so I'm wondering what a marshal might say. I should think you'd still need a basket or quillions, according to the ABC (An Tir Book o' Combat http://www.antir.sca.org/Pubs/ABC_9thEd_2009.pdf), as well as full gauntlets and a weapon retention system...

-Quintus Claudius Britanicus,
Legionnaire, LEGIIAVG

[Thomas Mac Finn]

It is legal. Yes, gauntlets and a strap or lanyard would still be required

[Quintius Clavus]

To my eyes and I have been in the SCA for over 30 years - that particular weapon's blade does not look list legal - it doesn't look to be the required 1-1/4 inches wide at the striking edge. In the latter days of my heavy weapons fighting I was using a gladius shaped weapon (it's hilt); the blade I left in the rattan's round shape, marking the edges with contrasting colored electrical tape. Paying attention to where your knuckles are will keep the blade's "cutting" edge properly lined up.

You also may want to check the website of Legio IX Hispana in San Diego, CA - some of them, at least a few years back, also fought in the SCA as Romans. They may have photos of their SCA Roman fighting gear (on themselves of course).

I have had a 1st Century AD Roman persona in the SCA for many years. The difference in what I wear in the SCA and what I wear at a Roman reenactment/Living History Timeline, etc, is that in the SCA I also wear my SCA rank markers - Baronial coronet (done as a ribbon diadem of the ancient period), Medalions of the Orders of the Pelican, the Silver Crescent, and White Oak. And an acquaintance of mine here in the East Kingdom has a Classical Greek persona - and he is still active as a fighter, but off the field wears a chiton and Greek style sandals.

The SCA's standards will never be what a Living History reenactor standards are, but that is okay, as far as I am concerned. There are some of us in both types of organizations, but many who do not cross over from one to another, whichever way, that is okay, too. The SCA has made great strides of improvement since the days when I joined - back when freon-can helms and carpet armor were still being used! And, I have moved into the Living History reenactor world and very much love it, but I still enjoy the SCA and getting together with the many friends I have made over the years.

[Thomas Mac Finn]

To my eyes and I have been in the SCA for over 30 years

Me too!

- it doesn't look to be the required 1-1/4 inches wide at the striking edge.

The rules don't say that it has to be 1 1/4" wide at the striking edge. 1 1/4" batons are not that wide at the striking edge.

Here are the relevant rules:

A. General
1. NO METAL OR UNAPPROVED RIGID PLASTIC MAY BE USED IN THE STRIKING SURFACE OR SURFACES OF ANY WEAPON.
2. Primary weapons used single-handed shall have a wrist strap (or equivalent restraint) which will keep the weapon from leaving the immediate area of the user. Restraints are not required on hafted weapons used single-handed, or on single-handed back-up weapons.
3. Flails are expressly prohibited.
4. Mechanical devices known as "sliders," which are used to guide or propel spears, are prohibited.
5. All weapons shall have all cutting edges and thrusting tips marked in a contrasting color.
6. The striking surfaces of all weapons, including the tip, shall be wrapped in a manner that allows no rattan splinters to protrude.
7. All thrusting tips and striking heads must be securely attached to the weapon.
8. The edges and tips of all striking surfaces shall be rounded.
9. No part of a weapon shall have sharp edges or protrusions with cross-section of less than 1 1/4 inch (31.8mm) in diameter. Guards, pommels, hooks, etc., shall be firmly and securely affixed to the weapon haft.



10. It shall not be possible to force any part of a weapon which may reasonably be expected to contact an opponent during combat more than 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) into a legal face guard. Rattan weapons may have a handle section which is less than 1 1/4 inch (31.8 mm), so long as it meets this criterion. Combat archery shafts may be thinner as long as the head and tail meet the criteria.

[I added a 1" wide x 1/2" deep slot to the side of my SCA marshal gauge just to test that.]



11. Rattan shall not be treated in any way that will substantially reduce its flexibility (e.g., treated with wax, resin, fiberglass, etc.).
12. No weapon shall exceed 6 lbs (2.73 kg).
13. No missile weapons intended to simulate firearms, slings, slingstaffs, nor Atlatl's can be used on the field of Armored Combat.

Emphasis added

Count Johnathan, who is not a fan of shaped swords (thus the "perfect" bit at the bottom) made this illustration during a discussion on the Armor Archive that included the SCA Society Earl Marshal:



My stuff comes closest to the 2nd "ok" in the picture.

[Dean Cunningham metalsmit]

The cavalry helmet was made by Ugo Serrano.

[Tiberivs]

I'm an SCA member. Many of us try our best to look our historical counterparts, but with the massive restrictions placed on us by the SCA due to safety, we can only do so much.

I use both Segmentata and Hamata on the field. I have a subarmalis made for each that works well without the need for any sports equipment. My helm is based on an Imperial Gallic J, with most of the ornamentation painted on in brass leaf. The cheek plates are on hinges that can be moved to put the helmet on or take it off and lock in the front to keep it secured on my head.

The tricky part is the hands, arms and legs. For my shield arm, I sometimes where just an elbow cop painted flesh color, and if I feel the need for additional protection I have a leather vanbrace that is flesh colored as well. For my sword arm I usually wear manica. For legs I go between knee protection covered by bracae or a pair of shovel greaves. For hands I wear clamshell gauntlets etched and painted to look like cesti.

I do my best to make my weapons look like they should.

I do fight in caligae. I do get crap for it because of the "no open toed shoes" policy, so I made a toe cap of leather and painted it to look like toes.

Not my best picture, but the only one I could find quickly. It's about 3 years old.

[Julilla]

I guess I should weigh in too: I've been a SCA member for 10 years (civilian) I'm pretty passionate about historical accuracy, and have won awards for accuracy in historical portrayals. There are a few Roman fighters up here in the Northwest states and provinces, but we're all heavily outnumbered by the Norse :lol:

[Draconis]

I have been SCA since 1978, though not active lately. To be fair, SCA is not re-enactment, authenticity is encouraged but not required. Minimum requirements are a reasonable attempt at period clothing. Period being Fall of the Roman Empire to the death of Queen Elizabeth I. I knew someone once who had a Late Roman persona and fought with a lorica segmentata shield and short sword. I also fought both war and tournament combat often, war especially ( its more fun) and believe me when the swords are flying you want the protection. Blows are full speed and a killing blow on unprotected body parts can result in severe pain and bruising lasting weeks. There is an emphasis on safety in large part because they don't want anyone to get killed or severely injured which could well happen if it were otherwise. Also, don't forget the SCA started in the US, and most of it is located there although there are groups around the world. The significance of that is the letigiousness of the US. One thing they do NOT want are lawsuits for injury and/or deaths. Getting hit by sticks may not sound like a big deal until you get clobbered. I had deep bone bruises for months after someone targeted an unprotected part of my leg. Likewise, protection around certain parts of the body is required becasue should a weapon get past the armor and hit solidly, the result could be death. It really spoils everyone's fun to kill or be killed by someone for real. As I said before about clothing, in armor, authenticity is encouraged but not required as long as its safe and not obviously out of period. There are some really good reasons why this is so. Again, its recreation ( in the spirit of the Middle Ages) not re-enactment. Its a different game.