Where are the women historians?

[Epictetus]

I saw an interesting blog post about how male authors are reviewed much more often than female authors. I started to wonder about ancient historians in particular and not many women come to mind. Mary Beard, of course, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

I checked the articles in the Journal of Roman Studies over the past five years and, of the historians / academics with gender-specific names, only 15% are female.

Why aren't there more women interested in ancient history?

[Astiryu1]

Bettany Hughes?

Writer of "Helen of Troy-Goddess,Princess,Whore"

She writes mostly about Homeric and Classical Greece.She has also appeared in a few documentaries.

[Ghostmojo]

Kathleen M.T. Chrimes Atkinson - something of an authority on Ancient Sparta (at least back in the 1940s)...

More recently Sarah B. Pomeroy - again dealing with a subject close to my heart, this time in Spartan Women (2002)

[Nathan Ross]

I started to wonder about ancient historians in particular and not many women come to mind. Mary Beard, of course, but I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

There's also the prolific Pat Southern, author of The Late Roman Army (along with Karen Dixon, also female!) and about a dozen other titles on subjects ranging from Augustus to Zenobia.

Kate Gilliver, who sometimes posts on RAT, is author of The Roman Art of War, and the Osprey book on Caesar's Gallic war.

On less military themes, there are Annelise Freisenbruch (perhaps more a classicist than a historian), author of First Ladies of Rome (aka Caesar's Wives), and Lindsay Allason-Jones, who wrote Women in Roman Britain as well as being 'an acknowledged authority on Hadrian's Wall and Roman Britain as well as the archaeology of the Sudan'...

Beyond this, however, the trail does indeed go a bit cold.

Why aren't there more women interested in ancient history?

Hmmm :neutral:

[Vindex]

Don't think Valerie Maxfield would like to be missed out (Military Decorations of the Roman Army).

Karen Dixon is, I think,an illustrator as opposed to an author (she has done two books on Roman cavalry for example - one with Southern, the other with Stephenson).

There is a trend in fiction whereby female authors are hidden to "enhance" their popularity...JK Rowling is a classic example, as is MC Scott (who was Miranda Scott when her first novels were written).

[Nathan Ross]

There is a trend in fiction whereby female authors are hidden to "enhance" their popularity...

I notice that Ruth Downie, author of the Medicus novels, is called R.S. Downie on the most recent editions!

Not sure if the same is true for historians though. Unless AHM Jones was really named Angela... :wink:

[Narukami]

There are the two "V's"

Vicki Leon: Uppity Women Of Ancient Times, How To Mellify A Corpse, and Working IX To V.

Vicky Shecter: Cleopatra Rules! and Alexander The Great Rocks! (for young readers)

There is also Annelise Freisenbruch: Caesar's Wives--Sex, Power, And Politics in the Roman Empire

And Linda Farrar: Ancient Roman Gardens.

However ...

Your point is well taken, and that is why I know of these women -- because there are so few of them working in the field of Ancient History.

:|

Narukami

[Vindex]

BUT...

...there is a depressing tendency for the women historians to write about women in the ancient world (or does that just make them more "acceptable" as publishing material?). Really doesn't interest me at all. MUCH rather have Valerie Maxfield and Pat Southern as my role models.

[Vindex]

There is a trend in fiction whereby female authors are hidden to "enhance" their popularity...

I notice that Ruth Downie, author of the Medicus novels, is called R.S. Downie on the most recent editions!

Not sure if the same is true for historians though. Unless AHM Jones was really named Angela... :wink:

LOL - perhaps LIKED to be called Angela...even more worrying!

[Caballo]

Don't think Valerie Maxfield would like to be missed out (Military Decorations of the Roman Army).

Karen Dixon is, I think,an illustrator as opposed to an author (she has done two books on Roman cavalry for example - one with Southern, the other with Stephenson).

There is a trend in fiction whereby female authors are hidden to "enhance" their popularity...JK Rowling is a classic example, as is MC Scott (who was Miranda Scott when her first novels were written).

I can relate to that ,being married to Nicky who writes under NM Browne in young adult fiction with Warriors of Alavna, Warriors of Camlann etc! Its also not to put off the teenage boy purchasing the books as well...

[Ghostmojo]

I know women are interested in history, but I guess it is a fairly small band who are interested in military history. The female of the species tends towards the more healthy interest in creation and nurturing rather than destruction and fighting. I know I am generalising here, but I don't know any women who are remotely interested in military things, but many blokes who are. How many young girls do you see at wargames conventions? As an occasional visitor to Salute and similar things, generally the only women you see are bored wives, mothers and girlfriends being dragged around. But I guess it is the same (in reverse) in activity/intellectual/leisure areas where women dominate.

[Vindex]

We do tend to be in the minority, but I was hooked on Greek military history by the Roderick Milton novel 'Tell them in Sparta' while I was at school and came to Roman history a little later (although my brother and I fought for days in the garden with swords and shields having been dragged to see Ben Hur at a tender age:wink: )

Its always been military history. But then I was also in the minority of women who joined the Army too. Quite funny when you're introduced as Major Watson and you're a WOMAN!!!! OMG! The number of times I have been asked "Where'e your husband?"...hock:

[Caballo]

And can you tell what is written by a man or a woman?

As an example, from NM Browne (Nicky) Warriors of Camlann:-

"He opened his mouth to comfort her, then stopped, silenced by his awareness of an abrupt movement in the bushes. A figure appeared suddenly from the dark thicket, moving swiftly towards them. Dan's hand was on Bright Killer faster than he thought. Something struck him, a hard blow. He never saw what.

Ursula watched open-mouthed as four men rushed towards her. She saw everything in one frozen moment: the bearded men in tunics and leggings; their bare heads, their long hair the colour of her own; the swords and small knives thrust towards her; the mouths open, screaming something — a war cry, a shout of triumph? The sound ripped the air, there was a thud and all else was silent. One of them had thrown a stone with deadly accuracy from a slingshot. It lay where it had landed, stained with blood. In the grey light the crimson blood welling around Dan's head showed up bright as neon against the pale yellow green of the grass. Ursula could not react. She stared at the spreading redness. She could see nothing else.

It was as if she had never been Boar Skull, never spent months in training, never defended herself in hand-to-hand combat. Numb with shock and loss she let them take her. She had left her sword in Macsen's land but she could have tried to defend herself. She made no attempt to fight as they snatched Bright Killer from Dan's lifeless grip. She made no attempt to run when they roughly bound her hands. She did nothing when the eagle brooch that Macsen had given her from her tunic. They spoke to her in a language she didn't know — they were not of the tribes — that much she knew — she spoke all their many dialects. The strangers smelled powerfully of peat fires and stale sweat and the powerful stench of fish. They stood close enough for her to smell the alcohol on their breath. Dirty, calloused hands caressed her roughly. It was as if it was happening to someone else. They refrained from doing her harm. She was not sure why. The tallest, who was still a few inches shorter than Ursula, cooed endearments and then signalled for her to be lifted bodily away. She did not resist. She had never been more lost. Once, when she was a sorceress, when she had wielded magic, when she had been able to shape-shift, she had almost become trapped in the form of an eagle. Even then she had not felt more lost than this. The world had shrunk until there was just one thing in it: the blood welling around Dan's pale face and his utter stillness.

She had let Dan down. She had not known their attackers were there. Always before, she had sensed danger. This time, she had sensed nothing. It was her fault. Dan relied on her for such things. She tried to reach for the magic. She needed the magic, had never needed it, never wanted it more. But she expected what she found — nothing. There was no magic in her. She was alone and helpless in an unknown place. Dan was dead.

© N. M. Browne"

And just to give pictorial evidence, here she is at a book signing...

[Epictetus]

I like her diverse bodyguard.

I see people could name a lot more female historians and historical fiction writers than I could!

[Ghostmojo]

We do tend to be in the minority, but I was hooked on Greek military history by the Roderick Milton novel 'Tell them in Sparta' while I was at school and came to Roman history a little later (although my brother and I fought for days in the garden with swords and shields having been dragged to see Ben Hur at a tender age:wink: )

Its always been military history. But then I was also in the minority of women who joined the Army too. Quite funny when you're introduced as Major Watson and you're a WOMAN!!!! OMG! The number of times I have been asked "Where'e your husband?"...hock:

Well good for you Moi. It is certainly true that these things often grab us at an early age. In that respect, when one is still developing as a person (regardless of gender) and we have yet to receive our sexual programming (boys go this way - girls go that way); then I suppose anything is possible. It depends where and when the influence arrives and arises.

When looking back at my own case I think I know what started it. At perhaps about the age of 7 or 8 somebody (probably a relative) gave me a book that somebody else had given to them. It was a children's history book called World History or something like that. It wasn't a large book, nor very long, but somehow managed to skip from early cavemen (something we now know to be a bit of a fallacy) through ancient civilisations right up until the middle ages. I guess there was a second volume that carried on from there (but I never got that). And it looked to be quite old and almost certainly second hand. It also seemed to me to be some kind of school text book. Anyway, whoever wrote or edited it had obviously an interest in ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome becuase they were the standout sections.

The coverage of topics was very brief, but lively and engaging. Within only a very few pages we had moved from the Hanging Gardens of Babylon to the Pyramids of Giza to the Acropolis of Athens to Horatius at the gates of Rome. It was a sort of bite-size potted great moments of history for pre-adolescents. It also contained some lovely little illustations. Again these were classic episodes - Spartans at Thermopylai; Alexander cutting the Gordion Knot; Caesar invading Britain. It was very Euro-centric, but I think there was some mention of both the Aztecs and Genghis Khan later on.

In any event I was hooked and had to know more. In the forty years since, I have been expanding that knowledge - particularly of Greece - and of course being a bloke, I really liked the military costumes, the helmets, crests, shields etc. That is real warfare - facing your opponent with a sword or spear. I keep telling my son when he is immersed in his X-Box, that hiding behind a wall in camouflage gear with a high-powered sniper rifle and killing your opponent who is a hundred yards away is not what being a warrior is all about. I'd far rather see Napoleon's Imperial Guard march across the field of Austerlitz; Alexander's phalanx lining up at Gaugalmela; the clash of Anglo-Saxon and Norman at Hastings; or Picket's charge at Gettysburg! Give me the whiff of grapeshot, the colourful flags and uniforms; the charging horses and bayoneted muskets any day. Modern warfare has no colour, no grandness, no chivalry and no style.

Admittedly I deviate a little here, but it does perhaps still serve the purpose of explaining interest, curiosity, and inspiration. Whether a woman feels that the same as a guy, I can't really say. Perhaps it is more about the individual rather than their sex? Why do boys very quickly fall into playing cowboys and indians, or commandos V nazi guards? My son already wants to join the SAS and he is only 13!

When considering the main point, however, I think it breaks down into two main aspects. And each of them again sub-divide. The first division is between history in general and history of warfare. My dear old mum loves history. It might be her I get it off. But her thing is the Tudors and Stewarts, cathedrals and stately homes. She has no interest in halbards, claymores or cannon. She likes the period for its costumes, its wickedly political infighting, its court intrigues and its larger than life characters. She likes other periods of history too - but never for the warfare (except castles). My dad can't stand history and is a sportsman. We have little in common apart from cricket. So the interest in history is obviously not remotely gender specific. The interest in warfare does tend to be though. And when we consider the way these two areas break down - general history, and military history - further, it is into fact or fiction. Although I read a certain amount of fiction, I'd far rather be reading the truth about what happened on campaign. I couldn't actually say what percentage of women write historic fiction (with or without romance involved) as opposed to the the Bettany Hughes/Kathleen Chrimes path - but the J.K. Rowling analogy is perhaps telling. I'm happy to read detailed information by anybody as long as they know their stuff, and when it comes to visual presentation - it matters not if it is a man or a woman who tells the story, as long as they do it with passion and enthusiasm, and inspire and engage their audience.

As blokes we can get very anal and anorakish when it comes to our interests. You only have to read this forum to see that. The fact that any women are interested in what size a Makedonian pelta might have been compared to an Argive aspis, or which general commanded which lost Roman legion and in which part of which German forest is to be welcomed. I have just finished reading a book about Spartan Law which only briefly touched upon military affairs - but I will read almost anything about Sparta. I can't wait to get my mits on the new issue of Lazenby's Spartan Army.

Perhaps it means us guys can worry a little less about being Geeks - rather than Greeks.:-D