Pterugues over long chain mail

[FAVENTIANVS]

I've seen many Bizantine soldier images wearing long sleeved chain mail and lamellar cuirass with pterugues over it.
How back in time could this be dated until? specially the for pteruges.

[Dan Howard]

You need to produce a priamry source with this image. Artistic reconstrucitons dont count.

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Having had a quick look at the modern "everyman's encyclopaedia" (Wikipedia) I noted two images in the essay on the Komnenian army.

[img size=55 kb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Byzantine_fresca_from_St-Lucas.jpg[/img]
Komnenian Army Caption: "Byzantine fresco of Joshua from the Hosios Loukas monastery, 12th to 13th century. A good view of the construction of the lamellar klivanion. The image also shows the tubular nature of the upper arm defences of the raised arm, that is the defences are not made up of separate strips (pteruges). Unusually, the Biblical figure (Joshua) is shown wearing headgear; the helmet and its attached neck and throat defences appear to be cloth-covered. It is possible that the figure depicts mail manikelia guards for the forearm (the forearms are not shown in the same green as the hem of the tunic and there is no appearance of folds as would be used to indicate cloth)."

[img size=142kb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/St_George_spearing_Diocletian_%2811th_c.%2C_Georgia%29.JPG[/img]
Komnenian Army Caption: "Though Georgian and from the 11th century this icon of St. George shows the armour most often depicted on Byzantine heavy cavalrymen of the Komnenian period. Despite being superficially "Classical" in appearance the armour is in fact contemporary: a lamellar klivanion cuirass with tubular splint defences for the upper arms and the kremasmata, a splinted 'skirt,' to protect the hips and thighs; the boots are of a typical knee-length Byzantine type employed by cavalry." (Maybe click on this link for the image).

I'm wondering if the St George image also shows (from the texturing near the raised wrist) mail armour over the forearms. Interesting to know more about this split strip armour that looks like pteruges.

Cheers

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

"...Interesting to know more about this split strip armour that looks like pteruges."

Quick addition on the subject of pteryges.

Both contemporary Byzantine images and reconstruction artworks show armour with the addition of pteryges. It may be, however, that this was more an artistic fashion or convention on the part of the Byzantine artists than an armouring reality. Maria Parani (2003) seems to be suggesting that Byzantine artists added pteryges to their depictions of all sorts of armour, even in inappropriate circumstances.

See:
Maria Parani (2003) Reconstructing the reality of images: Byzantine material culture and religious iconography (11th-15th centuries), The Medieval Mediterranean, Brill, Leiden, pp. 106 n.16, 108, 143, 151.

Cheers

Howard / SPC

[Graham Sumner]

Dan wrote

"Artistic reconstrucitons dont count."

Thanks Dan!!!!

Actually I would also suggest you check the primary sources first. What Dan say's applies equally to other re-enactors re-constructions too. Do not assume they are all correct either.

Graham.

[Dan Howard]

My point is that, as far as I know, the Byzantines wore either mail or lamellar, not both until very late in the period and the only evidence even in the later period is a handful of contemporary illustrations that can be interpreted a few different ways. It is these illustrations that should be examined, not modern renditions.