Early 1st cen. AD Germanic double edged sword

[Harjaz]

I was hoping to make a double edged 1st cen. AD Germanic sword. I found a replica on the Archaeoschmiede of a double edged sword dated about 0AD from a grave find near Hamburg. It has a lot of Celtic influence, but it is a good example of a sword from the early 1st cen. AD. However, I'm having trouble finding pictures of the reconstructed blade, and how the blade was constructed. I don't believe it was pattern welded, but the site mentioned some type of chemichal process used by the Celts to work the metal. I was also wondering if anyone knew how common these swords were in early 1st cen. Germania. The single edged swords were deffinately more popular, but were the double edged 'Celtic' style slashing swords only in the hands of nobles, or were they available to professional and richer warriors as well? Here is the link to the Archaeoschmiede's sword:
http://archaeoschmiede.de/page9.html

[arminius]

How early are you are we talking about? At the beginning of the 1st c. AD (Augustan Period) only mounted noble Warriors had double edged swords with metal scabbards. So if you are going to sport one of those, make sure you got the horse to go with it! Elite foot soldiers of the centenii and retinues had single edged swords with wooden scabbards. Later double edged swords became more common but they were shorter and had wooden scabbards. They closely resembled the Roman gladius. The advantage of the single edged swords is, that they are much easier to make.
If you like I can post some pics.

[Harjaz]

Thanks Andy, you just saved me a lot of trouble. I've seen some pictures of the single edged swords, except the handles seem to vary. Which one would be most accurate for 1st cen. Germania, and would be the easiest to make? Just wondering, were there any double edged swords in use among foot soldiers in early 1st cen AD Germania?

[Ingvar Sigurdson]

Hi Harjaz

I would look at late Le Tene spathas. Rather then repeating the discussions, there a number of conversations regarding germanic swords on the excellent myarmoury site, and it may worthwhile reading those threads to suppliment the information that has been provided here too.
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=21595

See also here for info on single edged swords
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18788

and to round it off
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18866

best
Dave

[Harjaz]

Form the information I've read on myarmoury, it would seem that the double edged sword most likely used by a Germanic tribesman in the early 1st cen AD would be a Celtic longsword (spatha), or a captured Roman gladius. However, if I'm trying to make the sword, which do you think would be easier: a Celtic spatha, or a single edged Germanic sword?

[arminius]

Ok, it might sound a bit nit-picking, but please stop using the terms “spatha” “Celtic longsword” or even worse “Celtic spatha” when you are actually talking about late 1st cent. BC/early 1st cent. AD Germanic double edged swords. These were weapons of Germanic design made by Germans for Germans. The appropriate archaeological term for those weapons would be “double edged sword with metal-scabbard”, “Late La Tène style sword” or “cavalry sword” (“Reiterschwert”). Yes, they do show similarities to the Celtic swords but there are really more differences than features in common. Some elements on the other hand were definitely borrowed from the Celtic swords like the decoration in opus interrasile technique. But the most important thing is that all Germanic Late La Tène style swords that were found in weapon graves belonged to mounted noblemen. They were definitely status symbols.

Only 20% of the Germanic warriors in that period were equipped with swords. The foot soldiers had single edged swords with wooden scabbards. There are some good examples featured in the links provided by Dave. The infantrymen armed with swords were mainly the members of elite units like retinues or centenii.

Some pics from my book will follow when I get my photobucket going again!

[arminius]

Germanic double edged sword



single edged swords



scabbard clamps

[arminius]

enjoy!

Andy

[arminius]

Some stuff from my buddy Andreas Prill:

[Harjaz]

WOW! This is some great info Andy! The blades look pretty easy to make, and the sheath's look even easier! I've acutally already made a wooden sheath for a Viking sword I have (I've a feeling it's totally innacurate for the Viking sword, but it looks pretty much the same as the sheaths for the single edged swords). I'm just trying to figgure which handle to make. I'm still trying to figgure how you would hold sword A from Harsefeld (and I could see it flying out of my hand in battle. In ancient times, this could get you killed. Nowadays, you just might break some combat reenactment regulations and possibly get sued.) I like the handle on sword C from Harsefeld gave 109. It looks very comfy and there's no way it will fly out of my hand. However, i think it might be a bit tricky to make. Luckily, I've found a diagram on Myarmoury on how to make the handle on this perticular sword!

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=18788

The sword on the far right in the 'formen einschneidiger schwerter' looks the easist to make, but it's a bit short for my liking. Any idea how heavy these swords are (weight is a serrious issue with traveling). Andreas Prills second sword seems to be modeled after the grave 185 sword. It seems the easiest to make, but then again there is the problem of it flying out of my hand (however, I've never held one of these swords, so it might not even be a problem). I did find a good picture of a handle for a single edged sword on a Germanic reenactment group's kit information PDF. Here's the link to the PDF.

http://www.hermunduren-aufgebot.de/ausruestung.html

Is there any evedence for this type of hande style? Also, how thick are the blades on these swords? And the sheaths: are they glued together and fastened with the scabbard clamps, or is it just the scabbard clamps holding them together? Regarding the innacurate terms i was using for the 'La Tene' style cavalry swords, I saw other people using them on Myarmoury and elsewhere, so I thought that they were the proper terms. Thank you for enlightening me on this! Once again, thank you for all the information, and I will begin work on a single edged sword as soon as possible!

[arminius]

The pdf of the Hermunduren-site is pretty good (except that the last to female costumes are Celtic and not Germanic). The sword featured is just another example of a Type SIa like in the drawing. This type of grip is also called “saw-grip”. I’m pretty confident that the guys based it on an actual find.

Single edged sword blades have a triangular cross section and a rather strong back. The exact thickness I have to look up. The exact weight I don’t know either.

By the way, the inside of the wooden scabbard is lined with fleece.

[ghandi]

Some stuff from my buddy Andreas Prill:

Hi Andreas. Just to clarify that: The blade of the sword in the first three pictures was made by Christian Böhling of Archeoschmiede and is modelled after the find B 408 from the cremation grave field at Puntensen (near Hamburg). Grip (lacking decorations) and scheath is made by me and everyting is part of my collection, though Andreas Prill owns a number of swords, IIRC, but not that one

Length of the original B 408 sword is given with 69,0 cm and from Fotos and drawings I supposed a back diameter of 3mm, which is fair enough compared to the length. Some other single edged swords from the cremation gravefield at Harsefeld (also near Hamburg)also have 3mm diameter and are even longer. That is, obviously, measured from the deformed corroded and unrestored finds.
There were no remains of a scheath in that grave (supposely) 237. But I modelled the sheath clamps and the sword chape after Martin Jahn´s (Die Bewaffnung der Germanen, 1916) depictions. So that was a bit freestyle on my part. In fact Jahn mentioned the chape to be out of wrought iron, while I had it cast in bronze. Furthermore I havn´t seen this style of chape associated with any of the single edged swords along the lower Elbe River by now, but please correct me, if missed something.

A fleece or something similar in the sheath is a nice idea. Is there a find to orientate on?



cheers

Robert

[arminius]

Hi Robert
Thanks for the correction!
Andreas Prill mailed me those pictures and I just assumed that the stuff shown was part of his gear. Sorry for that! You did a very good job on the scabbard I have to say.

For the chapes (Stabortbänder) – there are actually only 2 listed by ADLER: Harsefeld graves IX and 212. Both are iron.

The fleece … if it is based on a find it’s probably not an early Germanic one, simply because I don’t think that there are any scabbards preserved good enough. But I have to check.

And one more thing: Can you help the young Canadian fellow Germanic reenactor (Harjaz) getting fixed up with a group for the Kalkriese event?

[ghandi]

Hi Robert
Thanks for the correction!
Andreas Prill mailed me those pictures and I just assumed that the stuff shown was part of his gear. Sorry for that! You did a very good job on the scabbard I have to say.

Dankeschön!

For the chapes (Stabortbänder) – there are actually only 2 listed by ADLER: Harsefeld graves IX and 212. Both are iron.

You´re right. I forgot about those, although I have to see the originals, since in the Harsefeld-Book, their depiction is a bit questionable and no measurements or drawings are given (wonder in what condition these finds are now anyway...) But all you interested in that already hijacked thread see for yourselves:

Harsefeld, human cremation deposit IX, iron (left blade fragment, bottom)


Hard to tell from that photo, how that chape actually looked like. Reminds me of the chape find from Quedlinburg (as depicted in Jahn 1916,p.140, fig.171) , which is a basically a piece of iron sheet cut into a decorative form and bend over the scheath´s end. But that just speculation on a bad photo.


Harsefeld, urn burial 212, bronze

That piece is interesting, as it is cast in bronze. According to Mr. Wegewitz,it should be the middle or centre piece(?)of a chape of a sword sheath. Among the rest of the burial objects no other remains of a sword were found. As the burial urn seems not be destroyed, but many burial objects are heavily destroyed or uncomplete, it is possible to have another "pars pro toto" issue here.
If it is indeed a sheath chape it can be from a single as well as from a double edged sword (as many of have the bronze chape cast directly onto the end of the sheet metal sheath). Again, only a closer inspection would reveal it´s true nature.

So, still proves for chapes of single edged swords around the lower Elbe River is a bit scarce I would say. Will see what´s about the more east german grave fields will reveal...

The fleece … if it is based on a find it’s probably not an early Germanic one, simply because I don’t think that there are any scabbards preserved good enough. But I have to check.

There are some interesting finds from denmark with wooden remains, but I guess that it is either difficult to get detailed reports of their restoring or nobody really cared for such details in the past.

And one more thing: Can you help the young Canadian fellow Germanic reenactor (Harjaz) getting fixed up with a group for the Kalkriese event?

Hehe, Dan would be not the first tourist from waaay beyond thule to the west, who is welcomed by the "CHASUARI battlefield tours agency AD. LTD " to fill our ranks!
Our slogans: "Be part of the infamous mass slaughter of imperialistic invaders", "See the highwater mark of roman hybris" :mrgreen:
In fact contact between Dan and us is established.

cheers

Robert


PS
Just for those who got confused with our quotings:
- Martin Jahn, Die Bewaffnung der Germanen in der älteren Eisenzeit (Würzburg 1916).
- Willi Wegewitz, Die langobardische Kultur im Gau Moswidi (Hildesheim 1937).
- Wolfgang Adler, Studien zur germanischen Bewaffnung, Waffenbeigabe und Kampfesweise im Niedererlbegebiet und im übrigen Freien Germanien um Christi Geburt (Bonn 1993)

To non germanophones: The first book was setting the base for exploring germanic weapons. The second is one example of a cremation grave field in the lower Elbe area and mentiones some beautiful finds (some of which are newly described ad nicely depicted by our Andreas here). Both books are long out of print. The last attempt to survey germanic weapons is the book from W. Adler.

[StephenCurtin]

@ Andreas

Above you mentioned that, although these germanic double edged swords were influenced by celtic la tene swords, they had more differences than similarities. I wondering if you would be so kind as to go into some more detail on this. The only differences that I'm aware of are in the scabbards, e.g. the method of suspension, and the chapes. But what about the swords themselves, are there many differences between hilts or blades of late celtic and early germanic swords? Thanks in advance.