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Is any one else interested in putting together a nice list of images of statues showing musculata?
If so here are some to get started.
Apotheosis of Claudius --
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/co...%29_01.jpg This one is interesting since they seem to be empty and regid. (early 1st century AD according to wiki)
Patrick Lawrence
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That's quite an interesting image that I had not seen before. I notice that the musculata depicted show both the tongue ptruges as well as the other ptruges, including the shoulder ones, all being connected directly to the cuirass. I wonder if this is, once again, a case of artistic interpretation leading us astray, or if all of the ptruges were actually connected to the structure of the musculata?
If I come across any images that may be of interest, I will try to post them.
Alexander
Alexander
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That image was a new one for me also. And I agree it is rather interesting.
And here is another one I just found that also shows them when not being worn.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mharrsch/10...1/sizes/o/
Patrick Lawrence
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Patrick Lawrence
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Here are a couple more empty ones...
http://fvankeur.myweb.uga.edu/CastTrophyArea.jpg
http://www.vroma.org/images/raia_images/trophy.jpg
The one seems to show it bending but then again so is the spear inside it.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elissacorsi...81635@N00/ Another view of one of the other images.
Patrick Lawrence
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The last one almost looks like Russel Crowe's in Gladiator lol
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Interesting images
Patrick Lawrence
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Well, I know the topic of ptruges has been discussed at length (I've read much more of the musculata discussions), but the more and more I see images of the musculata from Roman art, the more I am convinced that ALL of the ptruges were attached to the musculata (both tongue and the longer ones underneath, as well as at the shoulders). I wonder how exactly they would have done this?
Alexander
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Not sure really maybe some of the statues will have clues.
Patrick Lawrence
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Except those are not over lapping plates. Its just the shape of them. Matter of fact most of those have that same notched shape on the front.
Patrick Lawrence
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Quote:Well, I know the topic of ptruges has been discussed at length (I've read much more of the musculata discussions), but the more and more I see images of the musculata from Roman art, the more I am convinced that ALL of the ptruges were attached to the musculata (both tongue and the longer ones underneath, as well as at the shoulders). I wonder how exactly they would have done this?
Alexander
I would not be so hasty in drawing that conclusion. The 'empty' musculata depiction comes from the (originally Greek)custom of raising a 'trophy/tropaeum' on the battlefield, consisting of the enemy leader's arms. A stake would be decorated with the enemy leader's cuirass complete with undergarments - whatever was worn under the armour and tunic included, and then his helmet placed on top of the stake.( and usually his shield and weapons piled against the stake, or hanging from branches on the stake.) Musculatas tended to be a General's armour of choice, particularly in Hellenistic times, so when the Romans adopted this custom, musculatas were the most commonly depicted type on 'tropaeum' monuments, and even where the stake was not shown, such as on the reliefs of 'piles' of trophy armour, the musculata would still be shown complete with undergarments such as 'arming doublets' with pteryges, and tunics. A close look at most of the images put up shows this to be the case, with either just the hem of a tunic beneath the pteryges, or the collar of the tunic showing just above the neckhole. For other examples of under-garments showing beneath armour, see the base of Trajan's column, images of which can easily be found on the net.On other statuary this soft 'arming doublet' is shown separately, as Russell-Robinson pointed out......
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Not sure if the distenction has been made but it looks like the first row (or two)is probably attached. This is the row of heavey short decoration that is probably leather with metal decoration. Then below that you the several two or three rows of ptruges that then make sense to go attached to the under garment. Matter of fact you can see on other statues teh difference. The top rows always fit perfectly flush with the breastplat if they are the short stiff decorations. The other ones many times do not fit flush and this is more the way an undergarment would sit.
Also the ones that do not have that layer of short stiff leather decoration around the bottom but just the cloth ptruges cleary show a gap very unlike how the leather decoration is shown around the bottom.
Patrick Lawrence
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Patrick Lawrence
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