Shoulder yokes on bronze cuirass

[joeandmich]

I noticed that in many films Greeks are portayed with shoulder yokes over bronze cuirass like the kind seen on the Macedonian yoke and tube linen cuirass. Is this factual or Hollywood?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hollywood

[Peter Raftos]

Joe, you may be thinking of these examples in iron:

Iron Thorax of around 400 B.C.found in Prodromi at theArchaeological Museum of Igoumenitsa, Greece.
Prodromi

Iron Thorax ca. 350-400 B.C. from the tomb of "Philip II of Macedon" AIGAI,Vergina,Greece:
Vergina

[joeandmich]

So Hollywood didn't make it up then.

Thanks

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

This cuirass is one example of what i have been describing in your thread "Spartan shoukder protection" in my post #291849
If you can post any photo of hollywood greek cuirasses that look like that, then hollywood hasn't invented their bronze cuirass "yokes". But i'm affraid what they did is mixing bronze cuirasses with the typical tube and yoke cuirasses from greek pottery...which is just an invention.
Khaire
Giannis

[joeandmich]

I just saw last night "Last stand of the 300" by the history channel and the Spartans didn't have the yokes but they seemed to be wearing what appeared to be linothorax under their bronze cuirass. Was this so or are they under armor like some Roman officer wore under their musculata that incorporated some type of Ptereges? They were made of laminated linen and leather.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

We know that the Greeks weren't wearing "subarmalis" under their armour. How? There are many depictions of muscled cuirasses hunging unworn and the pteryges are attached to the lower hem exactly like when worn. Another clue is that Xenophon, who speak extensively on how a bronze cuirass should be like and fit, doesn't make any mention to under-armour padding! If i remember correctly, he does mention padding to much more detailed things like the seat of the horseman or something similar.
Finally, we know that the tube and yoke armour was meant to be worn alone. So if you asked those re-enactors featured in the documentary where they based their interpretation, i suspect they would have to say something like that "Spartans wouldn't wear non-metallic armour,yet we knwo they wore the spolas". I have heard this kind of arguments, but they have no base. What we know is that Spartans did wear the spolas, which apparently was a cuirass "made of leather and attached to the shoulders". And we have no reason to believe that Spartans would only wear metal armour. So we are left to believe that Spartans often did wear leather cuirasses, and nothing more over them.
Khaire
Giannis

[joeandmich]

It may not be authentic but it does look nice. Here are some pictures of them.



[attachment=1504]Spartan-3.jpg[/attachment]




[attachment=1505]last_stand_still_4.jpg[/attachment]

[M. Demetrius]

It would be necessary to wear some kind of subarmalis, or a padded vest by some other name under this solid-plate armor. Changing the armor style does not change the needs of the bones near the surface to be protected from the metal.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Can't see how this means necessarily a subarmalis. Why can't it be padding glued or sewn on the inside of the cuirass?
Note that there is no word for such a thing. For far too long it has been speculated that the word "spolas" was meaning a leather jerkin worn under armour, but clearly this is not the case. The spolas is a cuirass made of leather and attached to the shoulders. And NOT meant to be worn under anything.
Additionally, re-enactors with well fitted metal muscle cuirasses do not report the need of a subarmalis (note that the number of re-enactors with such items is very small)
Khaire
Giannis

[M. Demetrius]

The padding could clearly be glued or otherwise fastened to the inside of the armor. My point was simply that SOME kind of pad would need to be put under the armor for the same reason that all other armor/helmets need padding.

Of course, I'm only using the word "subarmalis" as a descriptor. An arming cap worn on the head and a helmet over that, OR an arming cap of sorts glued or sewn into a helmet would constitute the very same thing--serve the same purpose and provide the same result.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yes...and no. It is of course the same thing in terms of what is needed under armour, and the fact of it being glued/sewn on or not makes little difference. However, when there is confusion in our days on what was worn under/over what, and if there was something that existed at all, it is advisable in my opinion to state what was the practice according to our research. Because a padding that is glued on the cuirass usually is considered part of the cuirass itself and one would never say that he is wearing a cuirass and something else under it. The speculation that there was indeed a separate padding has lead some people identify the word spolas as armour padding, and some others to suppose that the tube and yoke cuirass was worn as padding. The evidence is contrary to these.
My point is that there wasn't a subarmalis/spolas worn under the metal cuirass, and the pteryges were directly attached to the inner linning of the the cuirass. The exact form of this lining is unknown to us,though the iron quirass in Vergina had leather remains on the inside, and the 52 pteryges hunging under it were also leather,although only tiny fragments of them have survived. Leather linning glued to the cuirass is another clue that no separate subarmalis was worn under metal armour.

Khairete
Giannis

[joeandmich]

I glued felt to the inside of my cuirass so it would be more comfortable and riveted the pterages to bottom of it eliminating the need for additional clothing.