Beware Greeks bearing Gladii !!!!

[Ghostmojo]

As somebody with no serious knowledge of this particular period, but an interest, I was wondering if any Roman army experts here could share any knowledge they have concerning Pharsalos 48BC and Philippi 42BC.

My specific interest in in the Greek allies who fought. I understand there were Spartans present and wonder if anybody knows how they would have appeared/been armed etc.? My guess is they would have been some kind of thureophoroi or thorakites. But maybe they were armed in some kind of Roman fashion and perhaps carried a gladius?

I am interested in any of the Greeks present actually and would appreciate any response.

[FlorivsVirilis]

Generally speaking, I think native allies fighting with the Romans would have tended to appear in their own attire wielding their own weaponry. I may be wrong, but I believe Caesar's Gallic cavalry did this. However, I am not sure what role the Greeks would have played in the battle - their armour and weaponry would depend on this.

[Nathan Ross]

By the time of the civil wars the Greek states had been part of the Roman empire for quite a while, and I doubt whether any would have maintained their own independent armed forces. The Gallic cavalry mentioned by Lorenzo came from outside the empire, and so would have kept their own 'native' dress and equipment. Within the Hellenistic world, Rome had been the paramount military power for several centuries, and the Greek or Hellenistic troops around at the time of Pharsalus would probably, I think, have appeared more or less like legionaries.

A lot of the 'legions' of the civil wars seem to have been pretty ad-hoc affairs, raised very quickly and equipped very cheaply. Unless Sparta and other states really did keep their own armies - or at least their own armouries - then I'd imagine that the majority of their 'allied' forces would be hastily levied men with a couple of javelins, some sort of sword and a shield, trained to fight in Roman fashion.

- Nathan

[Ghostmojo]

Thank you chaps for those responses. Does anybody know of any other good source material to explore these issues further? Regards. HJ

[Crispvs]

Further to Nathan's point, Caesar's 'Spanish War' gives a good idea of the haste with which legions were sometimes raised during this period. Frequent mention is made within it of 'heavy armed' and 'light armed' legions, and it quickly becomes clear that lightly equipped units were much more common than heavily equipped units, probably due to the haste of their formation.
However, it would appear that the Spanish towns were as good at towns in the east when it came to producing weapons, and it seems they could produce almost limitless quantities of javelins at least. Therefore, I think that the equipage of most of these hastily recruited legions would be dependent on what equipment the towns in the region could produce. As such I think that their equipment would reflect the regional style of those towns. However, it would be the contemporary regional style rather than a style which might have been current centuries before. I think the same would have applied in other areas, including Greece.

I don't know if that is any help at all but it might at least provide one or more avenues for further study.

Crispvs

P.S. I see you have a new picture Nathan - very striking!

[Ghostmojo]

Thanks for that Crisp. I wonder if the Greeks would have fought as actual 'legions' alongside their Roman 'colleagues', or still in their own style. Mind you by that period I'm not sure what their own style would have been anyway; with hoplites long-since replaced by thureophoroi. I'll keep digging.