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Emperor: the gates of Rome
#31
I have all of Patrick Obrien's novels. I still don't know what a 'skyscraper' looks like ("There's a sight you can tell your grandchildren about" says Aubrey to Maturin, who just stares at him), but I do know about Benteen shrouds (named for Admiral Benteen who invented them) and what they look like. <p>Richard Campbell, Legio XX<br>
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</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=richsc@romanarmytalk>RichSC</A> at: 6/26/03 3:07 pm<br></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#32
A skyscraper is a triangular sail above the Royal, which in turn is above the topgallant. A ship with a skyscraper would then look like an endless stack of sails <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
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#33
Dear Mr Iggulden... I read somewhere that you sent the ms of 'Emperor' to only one agent and they accepted it right away - can you reveal who this agent was, or is such info confidential? (I would, of course, treat any suggestions with the utmost discretion!)<br>
<br>


<p></p><i></i>
Nathan Ross
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#34
I can't see a reason why agent details should be confidential considering they're all published in 'The Writers and Artists Handbook' each year. Definitely worth getting, or at least photocopying the relevant pages in the library, which is what I used to do.<br>
<br>
I did send my manuscript to only one agent for the simple reason that I had run out of money and photocopying a typescript is an expensive business. In times past, when I had more cash available, I would send anything up to twenty copies at the same time and then have the joyless experience of seeing them returned to me each day when I came home from work. I never bothered to keep the standard rejection letters, though one or two were quite helpful, with some scrawled advice in the margin. I won't go through the whole history, but suffice it to say, I have a lot of bundles of paper in my attic and only one is any good, in my opinion. The rest were part of the learning process - which still goes on, of course.<br>
<br>
At one point, I even put a hair from my head in the pages to see if anyone had read it. Sadly, the hair was often still there, though what this actually proves I don't know.<br>
<br>
Using the W+A Handbook, I would choose an agent who represented the kind of books I was writing. I did try publishers direct for a while, with absolutely no success. I think the old rule is worth mentioning here. They may take ten or even twenty percent, but that's better than being left with one hundred percent of nothing.<br>
<br>
Looking back on it, there are a number of things my agent has done that would never have occurred to me - foreign deals and placing it with more than one publisher are the two most obvious.<br>
<br>
The problem is, of course, that there are huge numbers of typescripts sent to agents and publishers EVERY DAY.<br>
The result is a 'slush pile' and though many employ readers, I'm sure a lot of publishable stuff is missed. It does reinforce the need to have a good first page however, as that is all anyone mught read before dropping it for the next one.<br>
<br>
My agents are :<br>
A. M Heath & Co. Ltd. 79 St Martin's Lane, London WC2N 4RE. It's worth checking their entry in the W+A to see if they take the sort of fiction (or non fiction) you may be writing.<br>
<br>
Stephen King said anyone who wants to be a writer should 'read a lot and write a lot' which is the best advice I've heard.<br>
<br>
Conn<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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#35
I also have all of Patrick O'Brian's novels and thorougly enjoyed reading them. He did mess around a bit with events in some of his novels and explained it all in author's notes. What made me keep buying his books was not all that lovely detail about sailing ships (which was at times a bit much for me) but the characters. I really cared about them so I was willing to read through all that detail to find out what happened to them.<br>
<br>
I'm afraid I'm a bit cynical about the publication business. Sometimes you read some real garbage and wonder how it ever got into print. Then you hear about authors who became icons, like L.M. Montgomery (Anne of Green Gables) who sent their novels out 30 or more times before being accepted. Suppose they had given up sooner? It seems pretty hit and miss.<br>
<br>
Maybe because I am older, I really am writing more for my own pleasure than for publication. I no longer feel like I have anything to prove. I have had short stories, essays and light verse published in various places, but I am not dedicated enough to make a career of writing. Yes, I'm a slacker! I'm much better at the read, read, read part of the advice than the write, write, write part.<br>
<br>
So even if I knew there was no chance in h*ll of my novel ever being published, I would still want to finish it. Quite frankly, I know enough people who are anxious to read the end product to make it worth the trouble. No, my dream is not publication of my novel, my dream is to FINISH the darn thing. I will leave those publication dreams and realities to you youngsters.<br>
<br>
Wendy<br>
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<p></p><i></i>
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#36
Just a quick thought, Wendy. O'Brian didn't publish his first Aubrey and Maturin novel until he was 55, then wrote twenty before he was eighty-five, as well as the biog of Picasso and other work. It's definitely an occupation that should get better with age, unlike running the hundred metres, or for some reason I've never been able to understand, playing snooker.<br>
<br>
Similarly, Agatha Christie's book 'Endless Night' is much better than all that Poirot business - written towards the end of her life when she was depressed and tired, I believe. Still one of my favourite books, despite the snobbery about her name.<br>
<br>
As I haven't mentioned Rome for a while, I'll stop before someone points that out.<br>
<br>
Conn<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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#37
Some writing examples:<br>
Ray Bradbury got about 1500 rejections before being published (of course he started submitting when he was about eleven years old.)<br>
Agatha Christie began writing at a rather advanced age, as did Raymond Chandler, who had made and lost several fortunes in the oil business: writing is an excellent second career.<br>
The best rules for writing I know were put down years ago by Robert A. Heinlein:<br>
1. Write<br>
2. Finish what you write<br>
3. Send out what you've written<br>
4. Don't rewrite except to editorial direction<br>
I'll explain that last one if anyone is interested. <p></p><i></i>
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#38
Quote:</em></strong><hr>4. Don't rewrite except to editorial discretion<hr><br>
<br>
Please do explain!<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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#39
It means that, it's okay to rewrite anything you're not satisfied with, but don't rewrite according to your friend's suggestions, or to those of your writing seminar teacher, or other nonessential readers. Their suggestions may be helpful, but they aren't going to buy your book. An editor will. The suggestions of an editor who is interested in buying your book are always worth listening to. I completely rewrote my first book twice to my first editor's suggestions, and then we did a lot of cutting and pasting. I thought I was hot stuff, but it turned out I was a beginner and my editor knew a lot more about writing than I did. I've profited ever since from her patience. My second book needed only one rewrite and now I do very little rewriting. Most of my books go to the printer in first draft.<br>
Remember, an editor's opinion counts. Nobody else's does. <p></p><i></i>
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#40
Just while we're on the subject, another piece of writing advice I liked was Orson Scott Card on writing short stories. When a cracking idea struck him, he made a note and did nothing until he had a second one. He said a one idea story would be too simplistic - it needed the second theme/layer to make a good one.<br>
<br>
Dickens also said that a particular man was "still enough of an amateur to think a novel didn't have to be planned." I dare say I've misquoted, but that's the gist.<br>
<br>
It did interest me to find that Stephen King hardly ever planned his books. He just rambled through them with no idea how they were going to turn out. At last I could understand how a novel like 'It' could go wrong in the last chapter,when he sticks a big deus ex machina monster in a sewer to explain it all. As a coincidence, the books he said he HAD planned, like The Dead Zone, were far and away my favourites, with great endings and a much tighter plot than most. I still think he's one of the best character writers in print.<br>
<br>
Conn<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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#41
John, I agree with you 99%. My only quibble is that some people have to do an awful lot of writing before they get the attention of a publisher's editor. In the meantime advice from other people--preferably people who know something about writing--can get them to the point where an editor will pay attention. As you said, suggestions of nonessential readers may be helpful, and sometimes that's all you're going to get. If you aren't getting any feedback whatsoever, how can you improve?<br>
<br>
But I do agree that unless they come from someone who is actually considering buying the work, suggestions for improvement are only suggestions and can be completely ignored at will without any qualms whatsoever.<br>
<br>
Wendy <p></p><i></i>
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#42
I have just finished the 4th book in the series and found it a great read , as indeed I found all of the others. As regards the criticism that the books are not entirely accurate if one wishes to read history , read a history book. If one is looking for a good yarn set in the late republican era these books are just the job. Good work Mr I keep them coming.
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#43
Conn,

As a simple kind of guy, I'll say this- I really have enjoyed reading your books.

I appreciate the historical notes at the back of each book.

With so Little surviving evidence on Roman history as compared to say WWII, I find some of the critics to be annoying, especially when you look at a time span of two thousand years. A lot of detailed information can be lost, distorted, etc..

Case in point-as guys involved in a fire fire ten minutes after it happened and five years later re telling it again, and you might be scratching your head if they are talking about the same event.

Oh to the critics-I am a living example of that Smile

I think you have done a marvelous job telling a great story that is interesting to read, and I am sure a lot more folks are looking at the marvelous history of Rome.

best of luck to you
ATW_ABN

v/r
Mike
Mike Daniels
a.k.a

Titus Minicius Parthicus

Legio VI FFC.


If not me...who?

If not now...when?
:wink: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" />:wink:
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#44
Quote:An editor will. The suggestions of an editor who is interested in buying your book are always worth listening to. Remember, an editor's opinion counts. Nobody else's does.

Fascinating to read this old thread (for which thanks to Nathan Ross for mentioning it on the 'New evidence about annihilation of the Ninth Legion')
And JMR - I couldn't agree more with you on the above point. My editor has the most amazing ability to see right to the crux of potential/real problems/things lacking/ways to improve a manuscript. Her input helped my second novel immeasurably, and what I learnt meant that my third book was much more polished. She read it and accepted it immediately (apart from one scene addition, which took me 2 hours to write). Here's hoping that the same will apply to my fourth (which I'll 'finish' in the next 7 days).
Ben Kane, bestselling author of the Eagles of Rome, Spartacus and Hannibal novels.

Eagles in the Storm released in UK on March 23, 2017.
Aguilas en la tormenta saldra en 2017.


www.benkane.net
Twitter: @benkaneauthor
Facebook: facebook.com/benkanebooks
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