Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Emperor: the gates of Rome
#1
This book by Conn Iggledon has all sorts of rave reviews on the dust jacket, but inside...shudder...<br>
It's awful! a fantasy retelling of the Julius Caesar/ Gaius Marius connection with only a vague imitation of relation to established history. the names mentioned above are the only ones with the proper relation to one another. with every single other character in the book, the names and faces have been changed(to protect the innocent? or just the uneducated?) historically established facts are completely ignored. roman customs are unrecognizable, and bizarre. I could go on for a really long time, but quite frankly this book isn't worth the effort.<br>
<br>
Fooie! <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#2
I am also disappointed, even though I bought this on on a remander bin! Don't bother, besides, hollywood will probably turn it into another lousy movie! <p>"Just before class started, I looked in the big book where all the world's history is written, and it said...." Neil J. Hackett, PhD ancient history, professor OSU, 1987</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=caiusfabius>Caius Fabius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ROMANISROMANORVM/files/C%20Fabius%201988b.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 1/25/03 3:13:49 am<br></i>
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
moderator, Roman Army Talk
link to the rules for posting
[url:2zv11pbx]http://romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=22853[/url]
Reply
#3
Poor bugger me. I paid full price at Christmas. The Author actually admits to falsifying most of the latter part of the book, re Sulla, Marius etc, and the first part covering the youth of Caesar is pure invention.<br>
<br>
VERY DISAPPOINTING <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#4
I haven't read the book in question, but I've been working on an "autobiographical" novel as told by Caesar himself, and any account of Caesar's early life has to be fictional because we know almost nothing about his early life. In fact, he's tempting to novelists because for such a famous man we have very little knowledge of his personal life, just of his public deeds. That doesn't mean, of course, that you can falsify the history that surrounded him. Why bother, when it was all so exciting as it was? <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#5
Jesus, you people are a hard crowd. I agree almost nothing is known about Caesar's early life, but we can infer certain things from his later accomplishments. Swimming saved his life in Alexandria, aged 52, for example. Suetonius said he rode well, was accomplished with arms and went bareheaded in sun, wind and rain. Clearly, he had to be taught those skills and attitudes and so this book deals with the sort of training a young Roman of that social class might have received. It isn't a history textbook, however and I freely admit to having made changes where I thought it was necessary.<br>
<br>
For example, Sulla and Marius attacked each other in Rome on a number of occasions over years. This is unsatisfactory from a plot point of view - dull reading. I condensed the action down to a single event, which I hope is a bloody exciting sequence. In such an exciting life as JC's, it would take nine or ten books to cover everything he was involved in and some of it just doesn't have to be told.<br>
<br>
Also, no-one knows when Brutus was born. Some claim with lofty authority that he was Caesar's son, but I am convinced this rumour came from JC's long relationship with Servilia, his mother. There is motive for the assassination, by the way. Granted, they probably didn't grow up together, but no-one knows when they met either, so I can't apologise for the fiction considering it led to a number of scenes I love - (Catching the raven together, learning to resist cold and pain, being taught tactics by a young Greek tutor etc.)<br>
<br>
Aw heck, I'm not going to go through the whole novel, defending it. It's the kind of book I like to read and the second one is even more interesting. Not many people know he was captured by pirates as a young man - long before senate authority of any kind. They wanted to ask for a ransom of twenty talents and he told them to ask for fifty. He said when he was free, he would find them and have them crucified. When they dumped him on a lonely bit of African coast, he went from village to village, collecting arms money and men until he had enough to take to sea and search for them. That's the history - the second book puts flesh on it and goes further into his astonishing life.<br>
<br>
I was really pleased when I found this site. It was a bit galling to see my book slated by people who share a common interest. I do think if you read it less critically, you'd find it wasn't all bad.<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Conn Iggulden. <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#6
Welcome to the board, Conn. Yeah, it's a tough crowd here. Just be glad you aren't involved in the tunic color debate. It really gets cutthroat over there. These guys give whole new meanings to the word "perfectionist." I'll have to pass on reading your book for now since I'm working on one myself. Steve Saylor and I have an agreement not to read one another's Roman mysteries since we work in the same time period with many of the same characters. This way we can't be accused of ripping each other off. (his book about the 1890s Austin serial killer is terriffic, though.)<br>
Good luck with the sequel. I'll read them when I'm done with the SPQR series, which won't be anytime soon. Just signed contracts for volumes XII-XIII with my German publishers.<br>
Best wishes,<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#7
Hi Conn,<br>
Yup, they can be bad here, but that doesn't mean everybody is necessarily of the same opinion. Debate is a large part of this board!<br>
Colleen McCullough, who ventured into the same period and people, has fans and boo-ers here. I liked the way she told the story, though she's a bit too much in love with Caesar for my tastes. I hope you're not!<br>
Haven't yet seen your book in Dutch bookstores, and I am curious now, though - I must admit - the title 'Emperor' makes me a bit suspicious, unless you mean imperator. <p>Greets<br>
<br>
Jasper</p><i></i>
Greets!

Jasper Oorthuys
Webmaster & Editor, Ancient Warfare magazine
Reply
#8
Hi conn,<br>
<br>
Sorry if we've treated you roughly. I will gladly admit that at least you've had the cojones to actually author and publish your book. I am always reading two or more books simultaneously, and since I've read so many novels, I think it sometimes hinders my enjoyment of what could be a fun and exciting read.<br>
one day I'll undoubtedly make some feeble attempt at writing my own novel, and if anyone reads it I'm sure I'll be in a fine pickle.<br>
No insult intended, and please don't take it personally. :/<br>
<br>
Vale Bene,<br>
<br>
Gaius MArius Aquilus <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#9
Hi Conn,<br>
Haven't read your book yet, but intend to this summer, especially given the heavy cut price incentive. Much as I'm glad that you are adding to the popularisation of the ancient world I am astonished by the deal you have cut with your publisher. The amount of effort being put into launching the series is quite breath-taking and I just wish my publishers had had as much faith with my series from the start. So congratulations.<br>
On the accuracy front, I have mixed views. First and foremost we are writing fiction and must not lose sight of the need to entertain our readers. I kind of pity those readers who obsess over detail, particularly when the 'facts' the defer to are themselves far from given. I had some Italian complain to me that I had not referenced enough history for my second novel. Given that the only source we have is 800 words from Cassius Dio I'd be hard pushed to reference what little we are told about the Claudian invasion. So, I wouldn't take the carping too badly. Look at your sales figures, the advance in the bank account and the good reviews you are getting. That's what counts at the end of the day.<br>
My only quibble with historical fiction is where facts are twisted to the point where history recedes and authorial fantasy intrudes. Rathbone's Last English King does this to an annoying degree in places, but then the story itself is wonderfully told, his characters (most of them) so attractively presented, that you can forgive him pretty much anything. I guess that's the license you can enjoy when writing about historical figures who enjoy semi-mythical status.<br>
All the best<br>
Simon <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#10
Welcome to RAT Conn! I've been poking the book at the stores, thinking I need to moderate my buying somewhere, but after reading all my favorite authors weighing in, I'll go out and snag it at lunch time. Yes, I have every Scarrow, Roberts, Davis and Saylor, all of Carolyn Lawrence, many of the other authors, adult and kids, and the only one I really have not been able to finish is one by Marylin Todd, with that yuppie Roman woman, Claudia Seferia I think.<br>
<br>
Book and films need to be books and films first! otherwise they're documentaries.<br>
<br>
Yes, just TRY to make a joke about t*n*c colors here. <p>Richard Campbell, Legio XX<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply
#11
Hi guys,<br>
I haven't read the book and probably will not, not but necessarily because of bad reviews on this forum (although I think I have spotted a good number of people with tastes very close to mine).<br>
<br>
I won't read it but because I am icy cold to the idea of reading a novel on Ceasar. Roman history has so many wonderful figures that to make a novel on Ceasar is, in my opinion, just a wasted opportunity to tell something different for a change.<br>
<br>
Cheers <p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
Reply
#12
Well, I must say that has restored my faith in the quality of web discussion. I was waiting for responses with a wince and I can't tell you how pleased I am to have found this site. As I'm sure John Maddox Roberts and Simon Scarrow understand, I daren't buy their books until I'm finished my series - it's too easy to plagiarise, even unconsciously. I will get them though - the Romans fascinate me and I'm sensing these are my kind of writers. I'm a little staggered to know there are that many SPQR books, by the way. It'll be difficult not to start getting them.<br>
<br>
I've no idea what the tunic colour debate is, but have you brought up the subject of whether the Roman's had steel or not? I'd be interested if anyone has definite information, but as far as I know, iron has approx 0.5% carbon and steel anything around 1.5%. If an iron gladius was hammered at high temperature on a bed of charcoal, the metal would react to form a 'skin' of harder steel around the soft core. It would take a better edge and still not snap at inconvenient moments.<br>
<br>
If I've stated the facts correctly, this is a perfect example of fiction vs. history. We don't know they had steel, but with expert Spanish sword-makers guarding the secrets of their trade, it's not a huge leap to imagine the Romans had it, even if they didn't know what they had. If I've just bored you to tears, apologies. I find this kind of thing pretty interesting. I do have a replica gladius and I practically cut my hand off the other day trying to see if it was possible to produce a fast-reverse of movement by checking the blade on the flat with an open palm. Extraordinarily dangerous thing to do with a sharp blade (mine isn't particularly), but just about the fastest change of direction I could make.<br>
<br>
One other quick thought - a friend of mine is a serious fencer and his right shoulder is grossly overdeveloped, almost a hump of muscle. I do wonder if the legions had a slightly lopsided look on the march.<br>
<br>
Conn Iggulden<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Reply
#13
The iron/steel question has been discussed, and I believe there are a number of blades which have been analyzed as far as those old things go.<br>
You might also look at the book 'Iron for the Eagles' by David Sim. <p>Richard Campbell, Legio XX<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply
#14
Hi all. I am not an expert on Roman history, but I am interested. I stumbled here after finishing Emporer - Gates of Rome and was looking for more info on Julius Caesar. I personally loved Gates of Rome, but I was not naive enough to think it was not fiction. I think that the negative responses here are perhaps the result of not treating the book as a work of fiction. Where you expecting an accurate history lesson? If so the book was always going to disappoint.<br>
I have had an interest in Rome and the Empire sparked by this book.<br>
Good to see the author posting on these boards. Conn, if you read this thread again can you please reply and let me know if you have an official website or a decent site that you can recommend for info on your work.<br>
Wonderful book - I thank you for that. <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#15
Salve silver Cue, and welcome to RAT. I guess nobody thought to ask Conn if has a website; or John M. Roberts for that matter. <p>Richard Campbell, Legio XX<br>
<br>
</p><i></i>
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply


Forum Jump: