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Salvete!
Livy writes in his 'Hannibal's War' about the Roman ambassador that said he offered war and peace in the folds of his toga and asked the Carthaginians to choose and said that the man was a Quintus Fabius. Now who could this be? Surely not Cunctator? Thanks in advance for any input.
Imad
Cry \'\'\'\'Havoc\'\'\'\', and let slip the dogs of war
Imad
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This is likely an occasion of an error by Livy.
According to Polybius, the Roman envoys were to present Carthage with a simple ultimatum. Surrender Hannibal and his staff, and thereby repudiate his actions over Saguntum, or refuse, and thereby support him, in which case it meant War. Probably, as Livy says, the formal motion to declare war had already been made conditionally in the event that Hannibal and co. were not surrendered.
As you infer, there were a number of Quintus Fabius Maximi, and other Quintus Fabii as well, such as Quintus Fabius Labeo....so many ( they were a large and powerful gentes/clan) that they often needed a further name! Q. F. M. Cunctator was one ( consul in 223,228,215,214 and 209 and Dictator) and another Q.Fabius Maximus ( consul 213) and later there was Quintus Fabius Labeo (consul 183), Quintus Fabius Maximus Aemelianus ( consul 145), Quintus Fabius Maximus Servilianus ( consul 141), not to mention Quintus Fabius Pictor, one of Livy's sources for the second Punic War.......
Not really surprising that Livy got a little confused!!
Many modern historians believe that the envoy/Head of Legation referred to was Marcus Fabius Buteo (consul 245). (Polybius III.20-21 and III.33, where the envoy is not named)
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Thanks Paul. I think it's quite probable that it wasn't Quintus Fabius in spite of what Livy says because when he mentions Cunctator later in the book he doesn't say anything about him being an envoy to Carthage. The evidence from silence is quite poignant.
Cry \'\'\'\'Havoc\'\'\'\', and let slip the dogs of war
Imad
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Indeed.....because Polybius didn't name the envoy, maybe Livy had to "guess" ( although one might expect that Roman tradition would not have overlooked such an eminent occasion).....or maybe Livy's sources only named "Fabius", and he guessed from there.......no telling now, of course ......
However it does seem very unlikely it was Q.F.M Cunctator...
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)
"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
