Children -Re-enactment on the March

[Chlodovicus]

I have been away for nearly a year - never mind the reasons. Last year my three kids had an interest in being involved in re-enactment. This spring, we may get to it.

My daughter is 13 and not really interested now, but my two sons are 11 and 10 and would like to be involved. A group trying to get organized locally (later Empire - 320AD to 370AD) wants to restrict military re-enactment to those old enough to be realistic - understandable. The two kids and their cousin want to do something with the group, but are too young to be soldiers. So, what to do?

A professor at a local college suggested that as the group wants to re-enact a vexellatio on the march, the boys might be servants (i.e. slaves) of soldiers. It is unlikely that soldiers would have exposed their own young sons to the rigors of campaigning or the march. So, the question becomes how to involve them.

Has anyone else involved their kids in re-enactment? Any suggestions or words of wisdom are welcome.

Did the kids take to it, or were there problems?

What costume/footwear would be appropriate for 10-12 year olds re-enacting such a role? That is the role of a slave boy at that time.

The only hint I can give is that my 11 year old thinks caligae are "pretty cool." However, by the 4th century those are unlikely to have been common footwear.

Opinions and helpful hints will be appreciated.

[M. Demetrius]

My personal observation is and has been, "If we don't get the teens and nearly teens involved with what we're doing, we'll soon be too old to be believable, and will become footnotes and nothing more."

What about a Kid Kohort? Rusty Myers does one at Castra Romana. He could probably give you some tips. Let them bop each other with foam or needledfelt swords. Learn the combat movements. Learn some of the drill maneuvers. Let them be "kid soldiers" when not in the adult ranks. You'll probably be surprised how quickly they pick it up. And if you win over some kids, some of their parents will probably tag along, and zap! you have a group that can get some things done.

Hats off to you for trying to get them in the field. I'd suggest civilian shoes for the time being, carbatinae, probably, as these are pretty easy to make. Put a foam insole in them and you're good to go on campaign.

[jvrjenivs]

Here in europe it is pretty normal kids are involved in re-enactment. Of course most kids will now show up as soldiers untill they (at least) look old enough to portray a soldier and I would say they can't be until they are 16 at least and until 18 they are not allowed to wear any weaponry by law. But the Roman army was followed up by camp followers, so they mostly are part of that. Just your children living outside the camp, following their daddy and get some practice from you as they might get the same career as you have now.

For the clothing: just go for simple civilian dress (with some more local influences, as your 'girlfriend' may be a local). and simple civilian shoes. As you mention correctly caligae are not use able for 2 reasons: wrong period and a military shoe.

[Robert Vermaat]

My daughter is 13 and not really interested now, but my two sons are 11 and 10 and would like to be involved. A group trying to get organized locally (later Empire - 320AD to 370AD) wants to restrict military re-enactment to those old enough to be realistic - understandable. The two kids and their cousin want to do something with the group, but are too young to be soldiers. So, what to do?

I'm in the exact same situation.
My daughter is 13 and my son 10, and they've been involved for years now. And indeed, my daughter is less and less interested, but since we have a female member in the group she is much more involved. The problem for girls (especially teenagers) is that we are mostly military-oriented, and there's little or nothing to do for them.

Me and my kids, back in 2004:


My kids in 2010:


The problem about how to portray the kids is a lot easier. You don't have to be a 'vexillation on the march', you can be any unit in the Late Roman army (on the march or not), since we know that they kept their families with them. Apparently, the units of both Limitanei and Comitatenses were accompanied by their families, and especially in the case of the latter they would have moved with them across the province. Julian's troops rebelled (and raised him to Augustus) when they were forced to join Constantius II in Persia (and leave their families in Gaul), but later went with Julian anyway - they must have been allowed to take their families with them (somehow). Anyway, it's no problem to have kids around LR troops. My son has begun archery training and can throw a javelin. I'm going to make his first (rawhide) armour soon.

Shoes have been a problem due their small size. After they got to a certain age they cheap 'Iron Age shoes' were no longer suited for their feet, and I've so far been lucky to find a source for good shoes (thanks Martin Moser!) for them. I'm still mystified why regular re-enactment shoe vendors don't sell smaller sizes, btw...
Caligae are of course (as Jurjen rightly remarked) the wrong shoe, but on the other hand, LR troops do not wear any 'military shoe', so you range of choice is a lot bigger (just not caligae). Just choose good shoes, as they have to walk on them all day, and shoes are important for kids (my son has to wear his support soles in them).

[jvrjenivs]

Some pictures:

Jeroen & Marrit (children of fellow RAT-member Robert Vermaat/Vortigern)


And some more from Legio XV Primigenia, Germany

[Ammianus]

On top of what has already been said, I'll add my little bit.
The Comitatus children cope fine, so you should not worry about yours. Children are more hardy than most people.
We have children ranging from 2 up to 17. There is plenty of room for children to be part of group, they make the campsite a lovely and lively place to be.

One of the hardiest members is our 4 year old. He's camped on Hadrian's Wall, in sub zero temperatures in September!
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They are very good at entertaining themselves, so the younger ones will happily play around the campsite, with each other, and the dogs.
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When they get a bit older (9/10 years) they get more interested in the crafts and skills that people are displaying in the campsite.
So often they will join in with a bit of breadmaking, board games or talking to the public about something. This is very enriching and something always to be encouraged!
For example one of the girls enjoyed learning to Naalbind and sat there very happily.
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And once they are 16+ they can join the soldiers in the arena.
The younger ones will always sit down and watch the displays, practically so that we know where they are (as most of the adults will be, at tha point, busy).
But on occasion they are allowed to do things like throw blunt plumbata at the soldiers during displays.
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Just make sure they are warm and fed, then they will be very happy.
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Their weekend will be what you make it. If you answer their questions, involve them in what you are doing, and give them a bit of freedom, they will really take to it.
After all they're our future! 8)

[John Conyard]

Well said. A brilliant post.

Thomas and Harry have both being re-enacting since they were 7 weeks old.

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Now almost 9 and 7, there is always something for them to do and enjoy around the campsite, or even in the arena. They enjoy learning how to use tools, weapons and new skills. Sitting on the horses is always good fun. And Roman games are as good today as they were back then. Re-enactment gives them a great education and helps prepare them for whatever in the future.

[M. Demetrius]

I'm still mystified why regular re-enactment shoe vendors don't sell smaller sizes, btw...

I'm sure it's just supply and demand.

Too often we who are soldiers don't find ways in the groups to include family, not as, "Oh, yeah, you can come, too" but as valued and integral parts of the reenactment. It's nice to get away with the guys sometimes, but if you do that too often, she might, also. hock:

[John Conyard]

I am hock: as well! Happy New year David!

We just order kiddies shoes from shoe makers in the same way we order adult shoes. Something to sort out around February/March time.

[Doc]

Speaking of Roman games, where can I get them or can I make them? Are there books with how games were played? My 10 year old daughter is getting more interested in ancient history especially since I started in this hobby.

[Chlodovicus]

As we here are all new to the re-enactment milieu, all this help and input is very much appreciated. In Pennsylvania there seems to be little history before Gettysburg.

Just by observation it seems the clothing would be largely greys or browns - undyed material, perhaps white for summer. The appropriate shoes would be carbatinae, and no older military footwear certainly for the boys. Last evening at a social event, I spoke with a neighbor who does seamstress work on her own. She said with photos and patterns she can make them any clothing they need.

I do appreciate the information on the shoes as I agree with Mr. Vermaat it is very important for kids. I have Googled the subject, but specific advice on from whom to order would be helpful. You gentlemen have experience with shoe makers, and the pictures indicate appropriate types. I noticed that the little boy in the second photo has hobnails on his shoe. Interesting.

One last item regarding footwear might be udones. The children in the photos are wearing socks, and the udones I have seen on line are nearly all heavy wool. Here is gets very warm (often 90F) in the summer, and I suspect not every child in the 4th century wore such things in summer. For practical reasons in very warm weather, does anyone suggest just regular cotton socks or none at all when wearing carbatinae?

In the summer it is hard to get American kids into anything but flip flops.

[Robert Vermaat]

I do appreciate the information on the shoes as I agree with Mr. Vermaat it is very important for kids. I have Googled the subject, but specific advice on from whom to order would be helpful. You gentlemen have experience with shoe makers, and the pictures indicate appropriate types. I noticed that the little boy in the second photo has hobnails on his shoe. Interesting.

Jeroen was alweays running around on thin soles, until his legs got tired and we decided to provide him with proper shoes a few years ago. he needs supporting soles now, which are worn in his Roman shoes.
He's had hobnails for two years now and likes them. His sister on the other hand does not. :wink:

One last item regarding footwear might be udones. The children in the photos are wearing socks, and the udones I have seen on line are nearly all heavy wool. Here is gets very warm (often 90F) in the summer, and I suspect not every child in the 4th century wore such things in summer. For practical reasons in very warm weather, does anyone suggest just regular cotton socks or none at all when wearing carbatinae?
In the summer it is hard to get American kids into anything but flip flops.

I would recommend against cotton socks, provided you can make them so that they do not cause blisters. Wool can be thin - it does not have to be a winter sock!

[pmel018]

Just had a good read through this thread, excellent stuff, most of which applies to any re-enactment group.
On the subject of children's shoes, I am pretty sure at least one of the suppliers here in the UK does an exchange deal to cover the ever grow feet of children
Phil

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Quite an interesting thread.
It certainly keeps you on your toes when there are kids about! :lol:

[M. Demetrius]

Right GJC! It makes the mouths of adults sound nicer, too, :wink: doesn't it?