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Scale Armor with sleeves...
#1
Hi there,

Just wondering if anyone has any photos, or a nice DIY showing how the heck one can attach sleeves to scale armor. Clearly the evidence from mosaics, frescos etc. show scale armor of the period with at the least Short Sleeves. Has anyone found a reasonable and practical method to create a scale shirt with short sleeves? I've heard of "lacing" them to the armor, but again don't know how practical that would be.....or authentic.

Could you simply continue the scales from the shoulder down the arm some how?
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
What we do in life Echoes in Eternity

Roman Artifacts
[Image: websitepic.jpg]
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#2
the comitatus website has some nice reconstructions of scale being belted to the shirt
http://www.comitatus.net/galleryarmour.html
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Jack McAuliffe
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#3
Thanks for the link. I'll have to request a close up image to really see how it is attached. Any more examples would be appreciated as well.
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
What we do in life Echoes in Eternity

Roman Artifacts
[Image: websitepic.jpg]
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#4
Actually, I recently spotted a scale shirt with sleeves already added on Suhel's (AlHammdtrpost) blogg. They seem to continue from the shoulder and breast outward. Maybe that would help you?
Salvete et Valete



Nil volentibus arduum





Robert P. Wimmers
www.erfgoedenzo.nl/Diensten/Creatie Big Grin
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#5
Do you have a link?

I think I'm going to likely make the sleeves separate, and then attached with to the shoulder area with leather straps, much a like a Segmentata, or simply lace them to a leather piece at the shoulder. We'll see what works best.
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
What we do in life Echoes in Eternity

Roman Artifacts
[Image: websitepic.jpg]
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#6
Seems to me there is a book on later Roman period/Byzantine armour which has some info on this.
It is an Osprey, of course....IIRC.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
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#7
So what time period would scale sleeves have been used? What evidence is there of sleeves being used? What pattern layout would you use to keep mobility? Thanks.

Chris
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#8
I have in the past made scale armour with sleeves however I can't put up any pic's at this time, it is all in the making and fitting of the scales.
I have always used a thin soft leather as the garment and working from the bottom up in fitting the scales, then on reaching the area just below the breast you have to begin to arc the line of scales but only very slightly.
Then keep on doing this and one finds that after passing the armpit area the scales have started to go over the shoulders and point with the lower edges outwards towards the shoulders or out stretched arms, then if a piece of leather is stitched to the shirt at the tip of the shoulder the scales can be carried down onto that.
The leather needs to have a slight curve on both edges just like a segment that has been cut from a Melon the skin of the Melon that is, then a rectangular piece of leather can be fitted to the end of the sleeve maybe about six inches long but without meeting under the armpit leave about an inch to maybe two, so the arm can move freely at the armpit then a longer piece going all the way to the elbow or beyond can have the scales going all the way around and that is how it is done complete with scales from thigh to wrists in one piece.
Brian Stobbs
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#9
Re dates, this may help a bit?

Heres the Piazza Armerina (4th century) , clear scale with sleeves.
[Image: SuperStock_1788-1301.jpg]
Dura Europas (3rd century) scale with long sleeves
[Image: vte_arca.jpg]
Adamklissi, very early second century, probably not with sleeves, though uncertain (image from Mike Bishop's excellent website and featured in B&C 2 (I also used this picture in an article on the manica)
[Image: manicanew.jpg]

Finally from Trajans Column (very early second century) the Sarmatian horseman in scale with long sleeves. Given that they have covered the horses legs in scale as well, this feels a bit dodgy...

[Image: 220px-028_Conrad_Cichorius,_Die_Reliefs_...tt_01).jpg]

I don't know any depictions of sleeved scale armour in the first century?
[Image: wip2_r1_c1-1-1.jpg] [Image: Comitatuslogo3.jpg]


aka Paul B, moderator
http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Moderation in all things
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#10
There is another aspect of squamata where it can in fact be tailored to the body, this can be done if the shirt is given it's opening at the back. This opening needs only to be from just above the buttocks up to the top of the shirt and a leather lace system can be used to close it.
When fitting the scales and one reaches the hips just dropping a scale out of the circumference then maybe two for a few rows then going back to our original number in the circumference can create a waist line that fits the body not unlike that shown by Caballo in his pic's of Piazza Armerina. The scale of the Dura Europas however do not show this waisting of the shirts, and one can't truly say if or not the sleeves are in fact simply fitted later to a more cylinder style of shirt.
Brian Stobbs
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