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05-11-2003, 08:39 AM

Although this book is not strictly speaking about Ancient Rome, there are many examples from historical sources inc. Plutarch, Machievelli et al. It is an astonishing read - a bare-faced assessment of the techniques used consciously and unconsciously by those who live for control of others. 
 
As well as the 48 laws themselves, the margins are filled with anecdotes and examples. Each law begins with an example from history where someone has failed to observe the law and paid the penalty, usually with their life. A commentary follows, then another piece of history where someone has been more subtle and succeeded. 
 
One of my favourite margin pieces follows : 
 
"There is nothing very odd about lambs disliking birds of prey, but this is no reason for holding it against large birds of prey that they carry off lambs. And when the lambs whisper amongst themselves, 
'These birds of prey are evil, and does this not give us a right to say that whatever is the opposite of a bird of prey must be good?' - there is nothing intrinsically wrong with such an argument - though the birds of prey will look somewhat quizzically and say, 
'We have nothing against these good lambs; in fact we love them; nothing tastes better than a tender lamb." 
 
- Friedrich Nietzsche. 
 
This is a fascinating book, if only for the explicit nature of the arguments. Also, I have to say, quite frightening. 
For anyone who has ever felt themselves the victim of gamesplaying - buy this and see what they were doing. 
 
Conn Iggulden.

05-11-2003, 08:42 AM

Robert Greene and Joost Elffers. Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£11.99. I bought mine from Amazon and next year, I shall conquer a small country, probably France. 
 
Conn

**richsc** · 05-11-2003, 11:11 AM

I looks like you may have an ally in Brigitte Bardot, maybe a few years too late, but heck. Richard Campbell, Legio XX

05-12-2003, 06:23 PM

I'm embarrassed to say I don't understand that reference, Rich. Sorry. I know she was very hot on animal rights? 
 
Conn

**richsc** · 05-12-2003, 10:53 PM

There was an article yesterday that Brigitte Bardot was warning against the 'Islamification" of France. Richard Campbell, Legio XX

05-20-2003, 12:40 PM

("Islamification" of France?) 
 
Funny, I thought France was Islamified? 
 
Phil

JRSCline · 05-20-2003, 01:19 PM

Suffice it to say there are apparently suburbs of Paris where a nice infidel wouldn't want to walk alone... 
 
I don't believe it was true Frenchmen who desecrated the British war memorial with red graffiti. I can't believe it, therefore I conclude it was the immigrant fanatics. 
 
I wonder what A. Lucretius thinks? 
 
Cheers 
Jenny

05-20-2003, 02:55 PM

Thus the matter is eternally at hand. 
 
Issuing citizenship and land grants to colonialists still has a down side. 
 
Phil

05-22-2003, 07:59 PM

Considering the Cenotaph in London has to be boarded up every May, I don't think you have to look to foreign fanatics. Countries like France and England seem to have their own, I'm sorry to say. It seems deeply shameful to have those monuments to the bravery of old soldiers damaged by people who delight in abusing the freedoms won for them. It wasn't that long ago that the statue of Winston Churchill was daubed in red paint. 
 
Personally, I would shoot those responsible, but then I'm probably old-fashioned. 
 
Conn

05-23-2003, 02:22 PM

I assume the instinct to shoot protestors in the name of those who died that protestors might have freedom of expression was couched in suitably ironic tones that mere print fails to convey...

Muzzaguchi · 05-23-2003, 10:37 PM

There is a statue of Wellington in Leeds where his 'wellies' (and only his wellies) have been meticulously painted red - but I thought that was very funny - it is on the corner of the University after all. It is an unscrupulous intellect that does not pay Antiquity its due reverence - Erasmus of Rotterdam 
 
'Modern history, like a deaf man, answers questions no one asks' - Tolstoy War and Peace Ep. ii.1

05-23-2003, 10:58 PM

Yes, all right then. I can see the irony. Mind you, it does bother me to see some of the abuses of freedom. Granted, it would be a bit much to expect people to show respect for every pensioner on the grounds that they fought in a worthy war, though I can hope for a bit more, I think. I wouldn't justify many wars in this way, but I think WW2 is pretty solid as a platform for this argument. I have never understood why people are willing to avoid South African apples, but buy fridges from the German company who manufactured the gas delivery system at Auschwitz. I don't think I'll name them here, in case the buggers sue me. 
 
I like the red Wellingtons story. There's a world of difference in that and throwing red paint at someone wearing a fur, say, or daubing old Winnie for reasons unclear to me. Despite my earlier note, I tend to stop short of using violence to force other people to accept my beliefs. My father used to say an argument was lost if I had to shout and I agree with that - which is why I find it so annoying when others seem to have been brought up with a different father's views. Volume or red paint doesn't win me. Similarly, I don't throw eggs at politicians no matter what the provocation. If they enrage me, I storm up to my voting cubicle in elections and damn well register my anger with a cross. I rarely feel helpless and when I do, I campaign for political parties and do everything I can short of grabbing people by the lapels. People's lapels should be their castle, sort of thing. 
 
If I get truly annoyed, I stand for election myself - two defeats so far. However, I had a go and may again if a number of issues continue to annoy. 
 
Conn

**richsc** · 05-24-2003, 10:16 AM

What's really curious is that when I added '48 Laws of Power' to my wish list, Amazon popped up "customers who shop for 48 Laws of Power' also shop for: 
 
"The Art of Seduction" and 
"The Guide to the G Spot and Extreme Multiple Orgasms" 
 
What exactly have you been buying out there?? 
Richard Campbell, Legio XX

05-24-2003, 11:02 AM

Extreme multiple orgasms?? A normal one isn't enough for these people? 
 
I'd love to read the Amazon reviews on that one! 
 
"(One Star) This book is very poor. Despite the illustrations, I am beginning to suspect my partner does not in fact possess the G-spot they claim is 'every woman's treasure house.' Also, the orgasms that resulted were, at best, of only middling quality and hardly extreme except in regard to the effort that brought them about." 
 
Conn

**richsc** · 05-24-2003, 05:18 PM

OH, I understand; the "48 Laws of Power" is a review of various types of batteries under 'personal' conditions. 
 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=richsc>Richsc</A> at: 5/24/03 7:19:29 pm

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