scutum again

[montefortino]

not that I have an obsession with scutum but is there a known repertory of all the different types of shield facing designs throughout centuries ? Did emblems change for each cohort or legion ? Did cohort or legion keep the same type of design as long as they existed ? thanks for any info

[M. Demetrius]

AFAIK, all unknown. Cohort emblems were evidently recognizable, but we don't know exactly how.

[Matthew Amt]

Right, very little is known. It's possible that each legion had its own emblem, and if so there seems to be some evidence for Legio II Augusta and Legio XIV Gemina. (And one other? Don't recall.) Assuming that's the case, auxiliary cohorts probably had their own emblems as well. Phil Barker's book has a few pages showing most of the known emblems from Trajan's Column and other sources, but he doesn't try to assign them to particular units.

And then we can argue about colors!

Valete,

Matthew

[montefortino]

thank you; I'll carry on with my researches

[Forty-One]

Well, apart from the drawings in that old Phil Barker book (I.I.R.C. actually compiled by Paul McDonnel-Staff), I've not seen any other corpus of modern drawings of shield designs. That book, however, does include late consular period right through to the 4th century. If you're interested in that you could perhaps send Mr. McDonnel-Staff a P.M. - he's a RAT member too and posts as "Paullus Scipio" - and see if he can send you scans of the images from the book.

Like Matthew says, the unit identifications are little more than assumptions. Probably the most convincing one is Legio XIIII Gemina, where two men on different gravestone portraits carry shields with the same design. The design of Legio II Augusta is assumed from a triumphal arch set up by (or in honour of, I can't recall off the top of my head) that legion. Some designs on Trajan's Column are attributed on somewhat flimsy evidence to specific units (Legio XXII Deiotariana has a curlique design and Legio XXX Ulpia has a laurel wreath, for example). Shields with astronomical symbols (crescent moons, stars etc) are assumed to be praetorian because men identified as praetorians have these designs on their shields and Caligula is recorded as once rewarding the guard with decorations representing the sun, moon and stars.

Early writers mention the names of commanders written on the faces of shields and at least one monument from the early principate period appears to corroborate this.

Vegetius also mentions that: "[E]very cohort had its shields painted in a manner peculiar to itself. The name of each soldier was also written on his shield, together with the number of the cohort and century to which he belonged". Whether the "manner peculiar to itself" meant design or colour scheme or both, nobody knows.

Regarding the third question, it's very apparent that styles changed over the years. The earliest known designs appear to be little more than simple geometric shapes (unless they're just space-fillers dreamed up by the artists - damn those Roman artists and their silly conventions! :lol: ), through the familiar 1st and 2nd century Jovian thunderbolt, wings and laurel wreaths, through the "Persian carpet" and Amazonomachia designs on the 3rd century Dura shields to the 4th century designs in the Notitia Dignitatum. None of these later designs seem to bear any relation at all to the earlier known ones.

I believe there is some archaeological evidence that shields were painted red and/or black, and for myself I presume that the colours (if not the actual patterns) shown on the Notitia are valid for earlier periods too.

[montefortino]

thanks for the info; although the subject is just about symbols and paintings I'm sure it was as important to the legionnaires as are regimental colours nowdays to soldiers..

[Robert Vermaat]

'Montefortino', please remember to add your real name to your signature (user profile).

[D B Campbell]

Well, apart from the drawings in that old Phil Barker book (I.I.R.C. actually compiled by Paul McDonnel-Staff), I've not seen any other corpus of modern drawings of shield designs.

If you're interested in the (somewhat random) designs from Trajan's Column, see L. Rossi, Trajan's Column and the Dacian Wars (London: Thames & Hudson, 1971), pp. 109-114.

Probably the most convincing one is Legio XIIII Gemina, where two men on different gravestone portraits carry shields with the same design.

Really? I've never noticed this. Do you have a reference, please?

The design of Legio II Augusta is assumed from a triumphal arch set up by (or in honour of, I can't recall off the top of my head) that legion.

ditto

Early writers mention the names of commanders written on the faces of shields and at least one monument from the early principate period appears to corroborate this.

I know that Cassius Dio recounts an incident from 40 BC when Marcus Titius allegedly arranged for his soldiers to "carry the name of Sextus on their shields" (Dio 48.30.6), asserting loyalty to Sextus Pompeius. The Caesarian Bellum Alexandrinum also mentions soldiers who placed Pompey the Great's name on their shields (Bell. Alex. 58). These sound like ad hoc measures in times of unrest.

For your monument, if you're referring to the Arc d'Orange, the significance of the named shields is not known. (Are they unit commanders?)

I believe there is some archaeological evidence that shields were painted red and/or black, ...

Again, I'd love to know the source of this information.

[Peroni]

Forty-One wrote:
Probably the most convincing one is Legio XIIII Gemina, where two men on different gravestone portraits carry shields with the same design.
Really? I've never noticed this. Do you have a reference, please?

Two men? I'm only aware of Gnaeus Musius' grave stone that shows the design. There are the Mainz column bases that have shield patterns - one which 'could' be referring to the XIIIIth as they were based there at the time IIRC.

Forty-One wrote:
The design of Legio II Augusta is assumed from a triumphal arch set up by (or in honour of, I can't recall off the top of my head) that legion.
ditto

The shield with the 'S' shapes with two capricorns is depicted on the Arch at Orange. It's in Phil Barker's book.

Another convincing design is that shown on the shield of Caius Castricius Victor of the II Adiutrix legion...
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,94/

[Forty-One]

Two men? I'm only aware of Gnaeus Musius' grave stone that shows the design. There are the Mainz column bases that have shield patterns - one which 'could' be referring to the XIIIIth as they were based there at the time IIRC.

Yes, that's right. My mistake. It's the gravestone of Cnaeus Musius and a shield on a Mainz column base that looks similar.
I just recalled that there were two representations. I guess I shouldn't post anything here without exhaustive reference checking first. :oops:

[Forty-One]

If you're interested in the (somewhat random) designs from Trajan's Column, see L. Rossi, Trajan's Column and the Dacian Wars (London: Thames & Hudson, 1971), pp. 109-114.

Yes, that source is also mentioned in the "Phil Barker book" ("Armies and Enemies of Imperial Rome 150 BC to 600AD", 4th edn, WRG Publications, 1981), which also notes that "Paul [McDonnel-Staff] considers many of the sketches included by Rossi....to be insufficiently accurate." :wink:

Early writers mention the names of commanders written on the faces of shields and at least one monument from the early principate period appears to corroborate this.

[...] Cassius Dio recounts an incident from 40 BC [...] The Caesarian Bellum Alexandrinum also mentions [...] These sound like ad hoc measures in times of unrest.

For your monument, if you're referring to the Arc d'Orange, the significance of the named shields is not known. (Are they unit commanders?)

Like I said, some writers mention it and a monument appears to corroborate it. Thanks for the exact literary references.

I believe there is some archaeological evidence that shields were painted red and/or black, ...

Again, I'd love to know the source of this information.

The "Phil Barker book" mentions red: "...there is fairly ample archaeological and monumental evidence for the backs of many shields being painted a dull faded red". I read a reference to black shields quite recently but I can't recall where. I'll try to find it again.

[D B Campbell]

The "Phil Barker book" mentions red: "...there is fairly ample archaeological and monumental evidence for the backs of many shields being painted a dull faded red".

Hmmm, ... so ample that he doesn't name any. :roll:

[Paullus Scipio]

It is correct that I contributed many of the revisions to Phil's book, then one of the very few available on the subject of the Roman Imperial Army, it's enemies and appearance.

One of my contributions was the shield designs - most from Trajan's column, but including other monuments which appeared accurately drawn for the first time.
( It is correct that the sketches in Rossi's book are crude and inaccurate, as anyone can see by comparing them to the many photos of the column now available on-line). Rossi's theories about certain designs belonging to certain Legions are also demonstrably wrong - e.g. his allocation of a design to XXI Rapax, which he believed might have incurred 'damnatio memoriae' following disbandment in Trajan's wars. As he acknowledges, the 'system/interpretation' of shield devices he hypothesises is not provable, nor are his lists of units taking part in Trajan's Wars. As in 1981, his book must be treated with care, and not as gospel.

The very similar devices of one of the two Mainz shield devices, at a time when I Adiutrix and XIV Gemina were based there, and the device on the shield of Gnaeus Musius, aquilifer of XIV Gemina was noted as "probably too close for co-incidence".

It should be emphasised that whilst it is tempting to deduce certain patterns being associated with certain Legions, and some Praetorian designs, nothing is certain, not even that all the shields of a Legion bore the same design ( though this seems likely). The only evidence in this regard for this period is Tacitus' anecdote of the two legionaries disabling a catapult at Cremona by disguising themselves by "catching up shields from the dead" ( Tac. Histories III.24), and concealed by the enemy shields got close enough to disable the large stonethrower being used by Legio XVI.

The later writer Vegetius(II.18) also tells us: "Lest the soldiers in the confusion of battle should be separated from their comrades, every cohort had its shields painted in a manner peculiar to itself. The name of the each soldier was also written on his shield, together with the number of the cohort and century to which he belonged." Unfortunately this can be interpreted several ways. From around the same time is a reference in Ammianus (XVI.12.6) to Germans recognising Roman units by their shield designs, and a reference in Claudian (bel. gild. 423) to "...the brave unit of Leones to whose name their shields bear witness..."

It is not until we come to the late 4 early 5 C "Notitia Dignitatum" that specific shield patterns are labelled with the names of specific units - guard units,cavalry, Legiones and the former auxiliary units. These also are fully illustrated in Phil Barker's book - over 200 of them !

Phil Barker is notorious for not naming his sources in his books but one piece of archaeological evidence he probably had in mind were the actual shields recovered at Dura Europos.

[montefortino]

thank you for this information;again, it would be interesting to know if shield emblems and colors were different with each cohort while pertaining some sort of a legion recognition emblem ? As for tuniques colors , were they associated with shield colors ?

[M. Demetrius]

As for tuniques colors , were they associated with shield colors ?

AAAAAAHHHH! (*Dem runs screaming, looking for scutum to get behind*) :?