Evidence for Roman soldiers carrying situlae before TC

[caiusbeerquitius]

Hi all!
I was wondering: Normally it is assumed that Roman soldiers were carrying a situla each, as far as I can see this is due to the depictions on Trajan´s Column. But how is this earlier? Do we have any sources? I have the impression that several Augustan sites rather bring up large riveted iron kettles... :wink:

[Forty-One]

Josephus (BJ III,95) mentions them on the march carrying an item that is usually translated as a "bucket" or "pail". The word he uses, however, can also mean a "shovel".

[caiusbeerquitius]

Hi Harry!
Is this clearly related to a situla, or could this rather mean the patera, if it means such a food-vessel?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Here we go:

??????? ?' ?? ??? ???? ??? ????????? ????????? ????? ?????? ??? ??????, ? ?? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????, ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ???????, ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????, ?????? ?? ????? ???????: ?? ?????? ??????? ??? ????????????? ????? ??? ?????.

In german it is translated as a shovel, since it is named among other tools. A "bucket" or "pail" would similarly make sense in the context, the individual soldier´s situla not, methinks.

Die auserlesene Garde des Feldherrn zu Fuß trägt Lanze und runden Schild, während das übrige Kriegsvolk zu Fuß Speere und längliche viereckige [sic!] Schilde und außerdem noch Säge, Korb, Schaufel und Axt, ferner Riemen, Sichel und Handschellen, wie auch Mundvorrath für drei Tage tragen muss, so dass der Soldat zu Fuß einem Packesel wirklich nicht viel nachgibt.

English:

Those foot-men also that are chosen out from the rest to be about the general himself have a lance and a buckler, but the rest of the foot soldiers have a spear and a long buckler, besides a saw and a basket, a pick-axe and an axe, a thong of leather and a hook, with provisions for three days, so that a footman hath no great need of a mule to carry his burdens.

Note also, that the originals for the situlae used by Junkelmann in 1985 derive from the vicus (!) of Rainau-Buch, which was founded as late as 130/40.
What do we make of this? We see most reenactors carrying a situla and a patera around, but were the items actually used during and before the 1st c. CE in such large numbers?

[M. Demetrius]

Rutrum is a shovel, spade, or trowel. What word is used for "bucket or pail"?

[caiusbeerquitius]

???

??????? would be a a pail

[M. Demetrius]

I guess I should have said what's the word in Latin. :oops: Aggeion doesn't really translate, afaik. Latin for bucket is situla or fidelia (which also means "pot", as in for cooking) according to the dictionary. A dictionary alone, however, doesn't carry much in terms of contextual shades of meaning.

[jvrjenivs]

A dictionary alone, however, doesn't carry much in terms of contextual shades of meaning.

And meaning of words can differ over time. So I wouldn't make any assumptions on a dictionairy alone. Certainly now when using it from English to Latin.

[D B Campbell]

Normally it is assumed that Roman soldiers were carrying a situla each ...

Fascinating. I have never come across such an assumption. Is this in the German literature?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Yes, Junkelmann, IIRC also Ubl. It is also deep in the reenactor´s minds... ^^
If we look on TC, this seems to be the source:

[D B Campbell]

If we look on TC, this seems to be the source:

In this scene (Scene 4, Cast 13, Cichorius Tafel VII), Cagnat (in Daremberg-Saglio) saw a haversack, a net containing meat, a cooking pot, and a ladle. I don't have access to Cichorius' commentary, but Richmond listed five objects: a string-bag for forage, a metal cook-pot, a metal patera for cooking and eating, a tightly-filled sack, and a satchel very like a tool-kit.

Richmond's satchel and tightly-filled sack are, of course, probably water skins, as is Cagnat's haversack.

But I've never seen any of the items identified as a bucket (situla or (h)ama). Which one is it?

[caiusbeerquitius]

a string-bag for forage, a metal cook-pot, a metal patera for cooking and eating, a tightly-filled sack, and a satchel very like a tool-kit.

The "metal cook pot" would be a "situla", I guess.

Richmond's satchel and tightly-filled sack are, of course, probably water skins, as is Cagnat's haversack.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Those are WINE and BEER skins, not water skins. Really. No doubt.

Below are the "situlae"...

[D B Campbell]

The "metal cook pot" would be a "situla", I guess.

I was confused when you said bucket. (Or somebody said bucket.) I immediately thought of the builders' buckets on Trajan's Column (although a Roman would maybe have called this a calathus :?
[attachment=1:1bz1pxa8]<!-- ia1 Buckets_on_TrajansColumn.jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:1bz1pxa8]

Your situla is normally called a "camp kettle" in the English literature. (Hence, my confusion.) Here is a selection (in bronze/copper alloy) from Newstead:[attachment=0:1bz1pxa8]<!-- ia0 Newstead_BronzeMessCans_GridIron_small.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:1bz1pxa8]

There is Flavian occupation at Newstead, but most of the finds seem to date from the Antonine re-occupation, so not securely pre-Trajan's Column (as you requested). Sorry.

[caiusbeerquitius]

No Duncan, no need to be sorry Thanks!
I am just wondering, if this is not one of situations where we have a "factoid"
:wink:

[Bernhard A Greiner]

Note also, that the originals for the situlae used by Junkelmann in 1985 derive from the vicus (!) of Rainau-Buch, which was founded as late as 130/40.
What do we make of this? We see most reenactors carrying a situla and a patera around, but were the items actually used during and before the 1st c. CE in such large numbers?

Rainau Buch was founded in summer 161. It was nearly complete destroyed in 254.
The patera and situla from Rainau-Buch are part of hoards, which are deposited in 254 just before the barbarian attack and destruction.
For further details see: Bernhard A. Greiner, Rainau-Buch II. Der römische Kastellvicus von Rainau-Buch (2008/2010) ISBN 978-3-8062-2244-9
[url:jlp67vh3]http://www.bag-verlag.de/Rainau-Buch-II/en[/url]

Bernhard A. Greiner,
Remshalden, Germany