Where have our Eagles gone?

[Ron Andrea]

:lol: Only, please . . . with dignity. (which I think may be Latin for "gold plating")

[Dominicus]

Well I think that going off the coinage is about the best idea we have to go on. More than likely they would not have resembled modern American 20th century style eagles. They probably looked more like chickens or other types of birds. If you look at some military banners from the 19th century,a lot of the eagles look way more like chickens than they do the stylized,and glorified birds of prey were use to seeing displayed today.

If we do luck out and somebody did recover an original Roman Aquila,it would likely look kinda funky to us. Just my 2 cents.

[ValentinianVictrix]

Just a thought here, but has anyone considered the interesting fact that some Eagles may have been the basis for the book lecturns that the Christian churches use? The Catholic church certainly uses vexillium standards even to this day, would they have converted other military objects for Christian use?

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

I've been thinking about the similarity too, but those eagles are huge, about half a metre or even more. They might have copied it, but using the originals seems unlikely to me.

[Ron Andrea]

Well I think that going off the coinage is about the best idea we have to go on. More than likely they would not have resembled modern American 20th century style eagles. They probably looked more like chickens or other types of birds. If you look at some military banners from the 19th century,a lot of the eagles look way more like chickens than they do the stylized,and glorified birds of prey were use to seeing displayed today.

If we do luck out and somebody did recover an original Roman Aquila,it would likely look kinda funky to us. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with Adam. It was only with the nineteenth century flag and other two-dimensional displays that the eagles we are familiar with evolved. Most older versions--including early versions of the Seal of the USA--have distinctly chicken-looking eagles.

Not coincidentally, that's what the coin eagles resemble, too.

[kchetwynd]

In 476 the Imperial Insignia were sent east, and to be honest I had always asumed something as precious as a Legion's eagle, if any were still in existance, would have made a similar journey.

Is it possible any of the eagles survived until Byzantium was sacked during the crusades? It is possible that an eagle would have been just a curious trinket to the crusaders, rather than something that had instilled fear in the barbarian cultures of an earlier age?

If one were to be found, it would be a phenominal discovery, so break out the ground penetrating radar and head for the Teutoburg forest... there could be one in the mud right? :mrgreen:

[Robert Vermaat]

In 476 the Imperial Insignia were sent east, and to be honest I had always asumed something as precious as a Legion's eagle, if any were still in existance, would have made a similar journey.

The imperial insignia were something totally different from the unit standards. Plus, sources do not mention that.

The insignia going East meant that Odoacar invited the emperor Leo to a) recognise his rule and b) appease him. It was never a declaration of indepence. The Roman army, if still in existance, was never sent home but taken over by yet another ruler. There was no need to disband any units, and any eagles or other standards would have remained in use with their units.

As an object, eagles would not have been stashed away after their units were lost or disbanded. they were originally a deity, and the Christian Romans would have recognised that. Consequently, their sacredness would have been long gone by the late 5th century.

[Ron Andrea]

And maybe, because they had previously been treated as gods, the eagles would have been the target of at least some Christians consolidating their hold on Rome?

[D B Campbell]

As an object, eagles would not have been stashed away after their units were lost or disbanded.

Except the eagle of the Ninth, which -- as everyone knows -- was stashed away in the town of Calleva (Silchester) by young Marcus Flavius Aquila, and remained hidden until the 19thC! :wink:

[M. Demetrius]

:lol:

[Forty-One]

If one were to be found, it would be a phenominal discovery, so break out the ground penetrating radar and head for the Teutoburg forest... there could be one in the mud right? :mrgreen:

They probably ended up in Axel Guttmann's collection. Christies'll probably flog them off soon. :lol:

[JeffF]

I've read that this is the last legion to have existed, that it lasted into the Byzantine era and may have not been destroyed until the Battle of Yarmuk (reign of Heraclius) or in a last stand at the isle of Elephantine (either during Phocas' reign just prior to that of Heraclius in the Persian conquest of Egypt or at the end of Heraclius' reign during the Arab conquest of Egypt). Any chance that this last legion kept its Eagle to the end?

[M. Demetrius]

Chance? Sure, there's always that. :wink: I'm not up on how/whether the Late Roman Byzantines were with eagles. Dracos, yes, eagles? I dunno.

[caiusbeerquitius]

If one were to be found, it would be a phenominal discovery, so break out the ground penetrating radar and head for the Teutoburg forest... there could be one in the mud right?

No. AFAIK all three were retrieved by the Romans.

[JeffF]

I thought only two were recovered. Tony Clunn still expects to find one, at least according to his book on the Varus disaster.