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Where have our Eagles gone?
#61
Quote:The "stylized" images on the coins, I think is more likely a result of the difficulty in ingraving a 0.5 cm. image on an iron die.
I'm not sure what you're implying. That maybe aquilae didn't look the way they are depicted on coins? (The Romans seem to have been able to depict other items recognisably, e.g. the Colosseum on coins of Titus, or the Column on coins of Trajan. Why not an aquila?)

Two more examples of the eagle in flight:
[attachment=1:31d8ut0e]<!-- ia1 Augustus_SignisReceptisDenarius.jpg<!-- ia1 [/attachment:31d8ut0e]
[attachment=0:31d8ut0e]<!-- ia0 Trajan_DaciaProvinciaDupondius.jpg<!-- ia0 [/attachment:31d8ut0e]
posted by Duncan B Campbell
https://ninth-legion.blogspot.com/
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#62
Considering to meaning attached to the eagles, I would assume that their representation on coins would have been as good as the technology allowed.
"Fugit irreparabile tempus" (Irrecoverable time glides away) Virgil

Ron Andrea
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#63
Quote:
jno:1dgtugzs Wrote:The "stylized" images on the coins, I think is more likely a result of the difficulty in ingraving a 0.5 cm. image on an iron die.
I'm not sure what you're implying. That maybe aquilae didn't look the way they are depicted on coins? (The Romans seem to have been able to depict other items recognisably, e.g. the Colosseum on coins of Titus, or the Column on coins of Trajan. Why not an aquila?)

Two more examples of the eagle in flight:
The eagles are recognizable, the Colosseum and the Column as well. But can you see every stone of the Colosseum? Can you see, on a coin, every depiction on the Column? They are, imho, also "stylized", just like the eagles. I don't see why the Romans would make their eagles unrefined/undetailed if they are the pride of the legion, even having a genius.
Valete,
Titvs Statilivs Castvs - Sander Van Daele
LEG XI CPF
COH VII RAET EQ (part of LEG XI CPF)

MA in History
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#64
Sander, of course this is not what we nowadays understand as "abstract art". That´s not what I was talking about. In the actual meaning of the word (=> ab(s)-trahere), Roman art is very abstract => not "naturalistic".
Which IMO makes the sentence
Quote:Looking at Roman art generally, they weren't much for abstract reppresentation
one, that is wrong, hence my interruption.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
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#65
Below more literature about Roman Eagles / Standards

Speidel´s is quite interesting IIRC, since he makes a point in showing a change in the look of eagles somewhere in the first century.

Alfred von Domaszewski, Die Fahnen im römischen Heer, Abhdl. des Archäologisch - Epigraphischen Seminars der Universität Wien, 5, 1988
Alfred von Domaszewski, Die Rangordnung des römischen Heere, Bonn, 1908 ; Köln, 21967
Michael Egger, Ikonographisches zur römischen Standarte von Gauting. Neue Aspekte und Perspektiven, Festschr. H.Dannheimer 1999, 98 ff.
H.G.Horn, Ein römischer Bronzeadler, Jb RGZM 19. Jahrgang (1972), 63 ff.; Taf. 3-14
E.Künzl, Die sakralen Objekte und Votive in E.Künzl, Die Alammanebeute aus dem Rhein bei Neupotz, 1993, 89 ff.
Max Mayer, Vexillum und vexillarius, 1910
M.P.Speidel, Eagle-Bearer and Trumpeters. The eagle-standard and trumpets of the Roman legion illustrated by three tombstones recently found at Bysantion, BJb, 176 (1976), 123 ff.
Oliver Stoll, Excubatio ad signa. Die Wache bei den Fahnen in der römischen Armee und andere Beiträge zur kulturgeschichtlichen und historischen Bedeutung eines militärischen Symbols, 1995 D stindarde ex lib.- x.
Oliver Stoll, Die Fahnenwache in der römische Armee, ZPE 108 (1995), 107 ff.
Oliver Stoll, Der Adler im "Käfig". Zu einer Aquilifer-Grabstele aus Apamea in Syrien, ArchKorrbl 21, Heft 4, (1991), 535-538
Graham Webster, Standards and Standard-Bearers in Ala, BJb, 186 (1986), 105 ff.
Willem Zwikker, Bemerkungen zu den römische Heeresfahnen in der älteren Kaiserzeit, 27.BerRGK 1937 (1939), 7 ff.
Christian K.

No reconstruendum => No reconstruction.

Ut desint vires, tamen est laudanda voluntas.
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#66
Speidel is out of print. Cry
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#67
Ammianus mentions the eagles still being in use during the election of Valentinian I (364 AD).

Quote:I've read that this is the last legion to have existed, that it lasted into the Byzantine era and may have not been destroyed until the Battle of Yarmuk (reign of Heraclius) or in a last stand at the isle of Elephantine (either during Phocas' reign just prior to that of Heraclius in the Persian conquest of Egypt or at the end of Heraclius' reign during the Arab conquest of Egypt). Any chance that this last legion kept its Eagle to the end?

The reign of Heraclius is almost certainly the latest period that gold or silver eagles could have been in use. Heraclius was so desperate for funds to raise and sustain new armies that he had pressured the church to 'loan' much of its silver and gold plate which was promptly melted down to mint new coinage.

~Theo
Jaime
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