Phalearae on Standards

[M. Demetrius]

It's been a while since this was discussed. Is there any new consensus on what the discs on a standard meant? From what I can tell, they were metal discs (bronze? brass? steel?) around 5" (75cm) and maybe 3/4" (18 cm?)deep in the ringed dish. I've seen a few things with various numbers of them, so what is the significance of the differing quantity?

Would a cohort have discs, a vex banner, and ? on the top of the shaft?

[jvrjenivs]

You mean the signum?


(Courtesy LEG XI CPF, belgium)

As far as I know the common idea is that it is a centurie standard (the number of the cohort on the plate and the number of disc represent which centurie of that cohort it belongs to)

[M. Demetrius]

Yes. I should have used the Latin name. So you're saying that Cohort Five should have five discs, Cohort Three, three, etc? that would mean there could be as many as ten discs, then? We're setting up a unit called generically "Cohort V", and we've decided we should have a signum especially for the times when we're the only ones there.

[jvrjenivs]

Yes. I should have used the Latin name. So you're saying that Cohort Five should have five discs, Cohort Three, three, etc? that would mean there could be as many as ten discs, then?

No. Seems my explanation was not clear enough.

First centurie of the 5th cohort has a signum with 'COH V' on the plate and 1 disc.
Sixt centurie of the 9th cohort has a signum with 'COH IX' (or 'COH VIIII') on the plate and 6 discs.

So, the maximum of discs would be six.

[M. Demetrius]

Thanks. Why do I feel like I should already know this? If we decide to be the first century of Coh V, we'll have one disc.

I've noticed that pretty much across the board, everyone uses steel discs. Is this because they are what's found, or because that's what's available today?

[Praefectusclassis]

If I'm not terribly mistaken, the evidence for this explanation is pretty thin though. AFAIK, there's no, say, signifer's tombstone who mentions exactly what centuria he was in & shows the standard he used. There IS a fragment of a signum top with 'COH V [...', but that was found in a known auxiliary camp.

[M. Demetrius]

Is there any other explanation offered for the various differences? Attached are reconstructions, modern, presumably using ancient elements. Picture taken from http://www.vroma.org/~bmcmanus/romanarmy.html And a relief from the same source.

[Matthew Amt]

According to what meager evidence there is, the number of discs on the signum does NOT correspond to the number of the century in a cohort. On Trajan's Column, for instance, you can see 2 signa side-by-side, and they both have 5 discs--in a typical camp, centuries from different cohorts would not be camped next to each other. Plus, the maximum number of discs known in artwork is 7, and the minimum is 2, so that doesn't seem to match up with either century or cohort number. Finally, centuries were identified by the name of their centurion, or by his rank (hastatus prior, etc.), not by a number.

As I recall, there is also no indication that a cohort had a standard of its own. The vexillum was apparently used for any detached portion of a legion, whether it was one century or 6 cohorts. (Darned if I can give you a citation for that, so apply grain of salt, sorry!)

My usual guess is that the phalerae were battle honors of some sort, but it's only a guess. Probably the Romans knew what they meant, but I'm not sure we can even be certain of that!

Valete,

Matthew

[M. Demetrius]

So here's the list of what we know so far:
1. The discs could represent something to the soldiers, but we don't really know what: number of one sort or another, battle distinctions or something else.
2. Cohorts (although we know that they had some kind of distinctive that was visually recognized, e.g., the infiltrators during a civil war who entered the enemy camp by using purloined shields) may not have had standards anyhow, nor did centuries have their own.
3. There are few bits of signa remaining to make things easy for us to understand. We don't know much except for a few admittedly stylized sculptures and a few mosaics/paintings.
4. The command "Ad Signa" would be meaningless unless there were signa placed somewhere around which to rally. Seems reasonable that there would be enough that any soldier anywhere on the field could find one to move toward. (Lots of sources, of course, but no need to list any of them here, right?)

This leads to the question (which started this whole thing anyway)...If a cohort were sent somewhere as a unit, they would take with them a vexillium, which would bear:
a. The legion number on the banner?
b. A plaque or plate with the cohort number?
c. An emblem of some kind harkening back to the original (animal, raised hand, wreath) unit?
d. A spear head? (At least one account describes a soldier using a signum of some type to stab an attacker)

**
The whole reason for this line of questioning is that our separated unit (200 miles from the HQ) wants to have something for the times when we come together, and especially for the times we have some kind of public display separated from the parent group. Easier to explain a vexillium when there's one for the public to see/handle. I'm not in the mode of "let's do this just because we think it's cool", honest.

[Praefectusclassis]

Well, there's something to add to what Matt said: some of the other items on standards very clear seem to be (no caption remaining, I won't say 'are') awards, such as the various coronae seen on reliefs. If that's the case, it would make sense that the discs are phalerae, and thus awards too.

[Matthew Amt]

If a cohort were sent somewhere as a unit, they would take with them a vexillium, which would bear:
a. The legion number on the banner?

Right, if I recall correctly, depictions of the vexillum either have just lettering, namely the legion number, or nothing at all (cuz the paint is gone!). I don't know if there is evidence for a cohort number on the vexillum. Of course, that is all completely NOT backed up by the only surviving vexillum, which has a painted figure of Victory and no lettering at all!

b. A plaque or plate with the cohort number?

Hoo, probably not on the vexillum. Such a plate might have been part of the signum, though it doesn't seem to have been a requirement, as it were.

c. An emblem of some kind harkening back to the original (animal, raised hand, wreath) unit?
d. A spear head? (At least one account describes a soldier using a signum of some type to stab an attacker)

I thought the vexillum is usually shown with a spearhead for a finial, though I suppose the legion's zodiac animal is an option. Sometimes the signum is topped with a hand, otherwise a spearhead.

The whole reason for this line of questioning is that our separated unit (200 miles from the HQ) wants to have something for the times when we come together, and especially for the times we have some kind of public display separated from the parent group. Easier to explain a vexillium when there's one for the public to see/handle. I'm not in the mode of "let's do this just because we think it's cool", honest.

We've got a vexillum and a signum. The vexillum I made before one of our early events, simply to have something to display, and it has served well. The signum can have a cohort number on it. A vexillum is certainly simple, and easy to transport, but the signum generates plenty of questions and discussion. And it IS cool to have, no mistake! I mean, that's kind of the basis for the whole hobby, though I certainly understand what you mean.

Good luck!

Matthew

[jho]

If you read German, a PHD Thesis on this topic is due for publication this year:

Dr. Kai Töpfer - Signa Militaria – Die römischen Feldzeichen in der Republik und im Prinzipat, Diss. Mainz (im Druck, wird erscheinen in der Reihe Monographien des RGZM Mainz).

This may shed some new light on the topic.

[M. Demetrius]

I don't read German. I guess I'll have to rely on reports from people who do.

[Spurius Papirius Cursor]

Hi Jens

When you say it'll appear in print in the series: "Monographs of the RGZM Mainz" ( 8) showing off my high-school German here) what does "RGZM" stand for? (Forgive my ignorance if it's something well-known).

Cheers

Howard / SPC

[jvrjenivs]

what does "RGZM" stand for? (Forgive my ignorance if it's something well-known).

Romisch-Germanisches Zentral museum. (www.rgzm.de)