On the Field of Battle

[Ghostmojo]

Just out of interest, who lives near an ancient battlefield? And perhaps just to widen the topic to include those in the New World of European (or indeed other) origins, who lives near any kind of historic battlefield?

I have good reason to believe I live not only near the site of a great Dark Age battlefield - but my back garden might even be a part of it! To prove this, however, I might have to get the Time Team to bring a dig to my part of the world. I live in Higher Bebington which is north of Chester (ancient Roman Deva). It borders another suburb called Bromborough. For linguistic as well as many other reasons many historians believe my neck of the woods has the best claim to be the site of the lost battle of Brunanburh:

http://loki.stockton.edu/~kinsellt/litr ... brun2.html :: modern Bromborough was actually called Brunburgh in the middle ages.

It is thought the heart of the battle might actually have been right in the middle of a modern-day golf course which is a few hundred yards from my road. There are local folk memories of something happening, although considering the time period they are probably more romantic myths. Given it was in 937 [size=85:2n2yjem0]AD[/size] there is little to go on, but some local place names and particularly names of country lanes are tantalising: Rest Hill Road; Bloody Hill; Red Hill Road; Soldier's Hill etc. and some fields having been known locally since time (almost) immemorial as battlefields. There is also a local King's Road which is said by many to have received its name since it has not been improved since King Alfred's time (although the battle took place decades after his death)!

There are several other claimants within the UK to being the site of this major confrontation, but as I say the weight of current historic opinion opts for this quiet part of the Wirral.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/mers ... 112301.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A3483029

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunanburh

NB - to the moderators of this site - please feel free to move this post to a more appropriate location if required. I wasn't quite sure where to put it!!!

[Justin of the New Yorkii]

And perhaps just to widen the topic to include those in the New World of European (or indeed other) origins, who lives near any kind of historic battlefield?

New York was strategically important during the Revolutionary War, so several battles were fought a short driving distance from where I live.... the battlefields of Oriskany (1777), Newtown, and Stony Point (both 1779) in particular.
The battle of Newtown itself was relatively minor, but afterward the nearby homes and crops of the Iroquois who had sided with the British were destroyed. There were probably more deaths from the resulting starvation and exposure than from the battle itself, which was fought right before the harvest, and the Iroquois never really recovered.
The capture of the British fortification at Stony Point was more important for the cannons, supplies and prisoners the Americans seized than for the fort itself; Stony Point was abandoned and retaken by the British shortly thereafter.
Oriskany, oddly enough, was the most important of the three even though the Americans lost the battle and their entire force was nearly wiped out. The British were besieging the nearby Fort Schuyler at the time, and General Herkimer came to relieve the siege with a force from the Mohawk Valley. But Herkimer was facing accusations of treachery because his brother was fighting for the Loyalists, so he ordered his force to march as quickly as possible in order to dispel any questions about his loyalties. As a result, they marched right into an ambush set by Indians who were allied with the British. Herkimer was mortally wounded in the leg, but while his men were dragging him to safety he ordered them to stand his body upright against a tree, where he smoked a pipe and shouted out orders, pretending he was fine. In doing so, he inspired his men to hold their ground instead of fleeing, and the ambushing Indians suffered heavy losses. And during the battle, the garrison at Fort Schuyler sortied to raid the almost-undefended Indian camps, adding insult to injury.
The Indians had been promised a low-risk opportunity for easy plunder, and that any serious fighting would be done by British regulars, but they suffered more casualties during the ambush than the British. Their resulting anger sparked a civil war among the tribes, severely curtailing their usefulness as allies to the British in the future. Herkimer County was named in honor of General Herkimer.

There are local folk memories of something happening, although considering the time period they are probably more romantic myths. Given it was in 937 [size=85:1ggyp8yg]AD[/size] there is little to go on, but some local place names and particularly names of country lanes are tantalising: Rest Hill Road; Bloody Hill; Red Hill Road; Soldier's Hill etc. and some fields having been known locally since time (almost) immemorial as battlefields.

That's sort of a blessing and a curse. Older battlefields have more interesting information (in my opinion, at least), but there's also less of it!

[Praefectusclassis]

As I used to live in Nijmegen, I lived near to the Roman camp and therefore close to likely scenes of combat during the Batavian revolt, though most of the pitched battles seem to have taken place further east. Throughout history the city was besieged in 880, 1473, 1585, 1591, 1672, 1794 and of course saw much heavy fighting during WWII, particularly during Market Garden. I now live close under the Medieval walls and on the former Vauban-type fortifications of Zutphen. This city was raided by Vikings about 900, besieged several times during the late 15th century, besieged twice in 1572 and sacked by the Spanish, captured by the Dutch in 1579, fought over at the Battle of Zutphen (1586), more sieges in 1591, 1629, 1672, but got through WWII relatively unscathed.

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

I live in the city of Rotterdam, NL.

Rotterdam was bommed during the second world war during which the entire centre of the city was destroyed: [url:3ldfylbg]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotterdam_Blitz[/url]

Close to Rotterdam is Vlaardingen. In 1018 there was an epic battle here between the forces of the bishop of Utrecht/ the German Emperor vs the count of Holland. In this battle the German/ Utrecht army was decisively defeated and the county of Holland was virtually independent afterwards that. This battle was a major turning point in the history of Holland: [url:3ldfylbg]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vlaardingen[/url]
Between 1046-49 there was a counterattack by Utrecht at Vlaardingen during which Holland was defeated.
In the years 1063-1079 there was even more serious fighting between Utrecht and Holland at Vlaardingen and IJsselmonde (today a part of Rotterdam). During this period there was also some sieges of the castle of Vlaardingen and the castle of IJsselmonde. After the castle of IJsselmonde was destroyed by Holland, the bishop of Utrecht sued for peace. As a result the count of Holland was finally officially accepted by the bishop of Utrecht.

In 1351 there was another battle here between the so-called the cods vs the hooks & English forces.
During the siege of Leiden in 1574 there was some fighting here and at Zoetermeer when the Dutch forces destroyed the dykes to flood the land at Leiden.

[agrimensor]

is working on a battlefield also good? I work in Maastricht which has been besieged several times even by One of the 3 musketeers who eventually died
here with a bullet through his neck.
I can see the location of the roman bridge from my desk

[Jeroen Pelgrom]

work in Maastricht which has been besieged several times even by One of the 3 musketeers who eventually died
here with a bullet through his neck.

actually, it was d'Artagnan who was killed at Maastricht.

[agrimensor]

I know, just forgot to mension who it was.There is a new book out on the celtic coin treasure of Amby Maastricht.
I was for my profession pressent at it excavation.

[Matthew Amt]

Well, I went to college in Gettysburg, smack in the middle of the battlefield there. The original College building still exists, and was used as a hospital during the battle. Learned a LOT about it from my roommate, who was an avid Civil War scholar. My friends and I would take long walks all over it, often at night (when we weren't really supposed to be there!). Luckily the anniversary of the battle is in July, so the heaviest tourist traffic was during summer break.

Living in the Washington DC area, there is any number of forts and such, but not a lot of battlefields. The Battle of Bladensburg in 1812 was about 10 miles from me, but doesn't get much press (we actually tend to refer to it as the "Bladensburg Footraces", due to the embarrassing performance of the American troops!). Washington was burned right after that, does that count? And in the same war, the National Anthem was written during the bombardment of Fort McHenry in Baltimore, just a 30-minute drive north. Haven't been there in a hundred years, keep saying I have to drag my daughter there some day...

I'm always jealous of you guys in Europe, you have all the medieval and ancient sites to play on! All we got here is "current events", by comparison.

Matthew

[Gaius Decius Aquilius]

I live close to the "Old Town" part of Albuquerque New Mexico. On April 8, 1862 a battle between Union and Confederate troops from Texas occurred. The Albuquerque Art Museum is now where the Confederate camp was located. Both sides started shooting at each other at long range. This kept up for two days until the local town residents got between the opposing forces and told both sides to stop all the shooting before someone got hurt. That ended the Battle of Albuquerque. One Union officer was hurt when he fell off his horse becauuse he was drunk.

Ralph

[M. Demetrius]

One Union officer was hurt when he fell off his horse becauuse he was drunk.

Some things never change, eh?

[john m roberts]

I live in Estancia, NM, about 55 miles SE of Ralph. No big fights here, but the Comanches used to ride through on their way to Santa Fe to harass the Spaniards (they came through here because we have a spring. In the desert, where there's water, people make it a point to stop by. That's why it's called Estancia, "the resting place."). In 1939 two guys named Vasquez and Ortega slugged it out in front of the bar one night. Other than that, not much.

[M. Demetrius]

Who won, John?

[Iagoba]

The oldest battle was the first known siege of Vitoria, from Summer 1199 (before the crop harvesting...) to January 1200, hen it surrendered and become part of Castilla instead of Navarra.
Later in 1367, during the Castilla's sucesory war, the Black Prince (supporting ) acamped near the town for some days. An advanced little force (few knights, and about 200 men at arms and 200 longbowmen) was slaughtered. Sir Walter Scott narrates this events (it's the last battle in "Ivanhoe").The Black Prince ordered to deploy in battle order and await. Two days later, seeing that Enrique's forces didn't came down from the mountains (DuGlescin knew it was not very wise to do so) he went back to Navarra, and fron there to Najera (where the really big battle happened). I leave aside some of the local nobility petty wars, whose skirmishes were almost constant during the XIV and XV centuries.
There is anothes siege/blockade during the early XVI century, as "comuneros" rebelled against Charles I. A batle took place in Durana, near the city.
Of course, the Battle of Vitoria in 1813.
Later, the city was more or less tightly blockaded during the first and third Carlist wars.

Mmm...does having a Condor Legion air base qualify? :?:

[Ghostmojo]

Whilst being primarily interested in ancient history (which is why we are here right?) I am actually interested in many other periods - the Dark Ages; european religious wars; English Civil War; the Marlborough and Frederick the Great periods and of course the Napoleonic period. And then there are the various colonial wars and events overseas, and being a Brit have a particular fascination with the wars in North America. I too have always been fascinated with the American War of Independence for a variety of reasons. One of those reasons is the brother against brother aspect of it that all civil wars entail - and the AWOI was most definitely a civil war. Given that only between 25-30% of the then colonial population supported the rebellion with equally 25-30% of their fellow 'citizens' taking the opposite view (and possibly as much as 50% not giving a damn one way or the other); and that people born in the American colonies fought on both sides - as indeed did people born in Britain; and that the divide was more of a vertical one socially:- then it certainly was often a case of brother against brother, father against son etc.

It was a peculiar conflict for all of those reasons and many others (huge unpopularity of the war at home in Britain / considerable support for the colonists including within Parliament etc. / many British commanders refusing to serve in America and those that did rarely pushing home their advantage) and so was the ensuing War of 1812 which was so inconclusive that the reasons for its start were not even mentioned in its settlement - plus the fact that masses of people were still emigrating from the UK to the new USA and all over the new republic towns adopted the name Waterloo in 1815!!! Very confusing times with split and changeable loyalties which reappeared 50 years later.

I visited a few AWOI sites when I was in the states and always got a kick from seeing them. There's something particularly intriguing about European soldiers building forts and trying to negotiate the untamed wilderness of all those forests etc.

But back to the ancient world ... I'm still waiting for somebody on this forum who lives near Thermopylai, Gaugemela, Cannae or Zama ...

[Polinik]

Interesting topic...I would personally like to meet someone from Astros in Arcadia or Tegea..the real hardcore battles.

If it counts,though is not BC..and nothing flashy,but still the biggest death toll in this western part of my country...I was born and live(d) in an immediate vicinity of the (Roman, but no battles though) and Medieval town http://img1.worldpoi.info/upload/pics/t ... 235491.jpg

It was a place of the battle between two of the rivalry Serb knights and their armies who wanted the control of the city in 1355 AD..Than the victorious one was again defeated at the site some time later..And then the Turks of course came in 1463 AD and fierce battle was fought around the fortress but Turks won...Than the Turks were defeated few centuries later and the city (probably place where I lived as well) was bombed by cannons by our people and leveled..And some slaughter happened and throwing off the cliffs,usual stuff...See the photo and you will get the picture..